Kill switch headaches

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 12:39 pm Oct 11 2005

Well I have now bought 2 different switches from 2 different places and they both work backwards. I have to hold it down to start the bike and when I let it off it dies. I'm now thinking its the bike thats backwards. When I got the bike it had a on/off type switch the 2 I have bought are press on and hold to kill type. You know what I mean, the common MX type ones. Gimme a break its 4am. Oh no I'm talking to myself again, better go before I say something silly. Oh no too late.

Seriously though can anyone shed some light on my kill switch headaches ???

Thanks and nitey, nite !!!

dave04kdx · Post by **dave04kdx** » 12:56 pm Oct 11 2005

Betcha there is nothing wrong with the switches, you are just upside down and backwards "down under"

They would be fine in this hemisphere

I am guessing that these are not OEM kill switches? Without having one to look at or having the book here I would say that the OEM type are a normally open type of switch. Pressing the switch should close the contacts and kill the engine. Can you change the wires inside the cover on the switch? Maybe there are different posts to change the switch from N/O (normally open) to N/C (normally closed)

Is this switch for your 98 or 87 model? I have books for both and can check electrical diagrams when I get home.

dave04kdx · Post by **dave04kdx** » 10:06 pm Oct 11 2005

Hey Trev

Got any sleep yet?

I checked both the C model and the H model manuals this evening. Both OEM switches are the normally open type. I am assuming that your 98 has the same N/O type. Do you know how to check and see if your questionable switch is normally open or normally closed? If not, let me know and I will confuse you beyond sanity with my babbling

Seriously, I can explain how to check the switch. Let us know what you find out.

David

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 12:34 am Oct 12 2005

Trev;
Try reversing the wires if there are 2 of them. Usually the way a kill switch works is by taking a ground from one lead and routing to the CDI on the other. Occasionally, the lead that picks up the ground will also be shorted to the metal bracket that attaches the button to the bars. Reversing the wires would solve that problem. It doesn't explain why the switch works in reverse though. Page 14-5 of the manual shows how the kill switch is wired. Well, that is if you are asking about your H model KDX.

Also, try using the kill switch while it is not mounted to the bars. If it works correctly that way, then use some electrical tape on the bars where the switch mounts. Tell us what the problem ends up being too!!

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 01:55 am Oct 12 2005

YAWN !!! Morning, well afternoon.

Well this is the switch.

It is for my H model. My exsisting switch is like a light switch type, flick ON or OFF. I connected a battery and light on the new switch and the light only works once the button is pressed. So it seems to be working in reverse to what I need.

I have tried switching the wires but no dice. I am at a loss because it is the 2nd switch I have bought from 2 different sources and both work backewards.

I swear it's my bike thats backwards. In my manual on the page you suggested Ski, it shows that the switch is wired on the off side (refer to pic on bottom left as you look at the diagram or bottom right of the page). I have spoken to the seller and they stated if its faulty to return it for a refund, but I just want to make sure it IS faulty. Any other ideas guys or does it sound faulty to you's aswell.. Thanks for all the help fellas I pree-she-ate it very much.

dave04kdx · Post by **dave04kdx** » 10:15 am Oct 12 2005

Your battery and bulb set up is a good way to see the way the switch works. From what you described the switch is the correct type. Normally an open circuit, not working until the switch is actuated, closing the circuit and making the bulb light.
The manual shows this normally open type circuit on the OEM switch.

On your new switch, try using the battery and light bulb. Hook up the ground wire and the other two leads one at a time. Maybe you can change the operation of the switch by doing this.

I broke my kill switch on a big rock last winter.

A new one cost $20.00 from my local Kawa dealer. If you want I can get you an OEM switch and mail it to you.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 11:45 am Oct 12 2005

The old switch was two position...with how many wires?

Well, more correctly...how many CONTACTS on the switch..and how do they 'look' with a meter, meaning, what contact is connected to what, when?

Seems simple to me....we'll see.............

This IS an international model bike?

Seems I recall that you do NOT have one'a those..........

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 11:48 am Oct 12 2005

Or....describe the old and new switches..SPST, SPDT, momentary contact..push 'on' or push 'off'?

KanuckKDX · Post by **KanuckKDX** » 12:08 pm Oct 12 2005

Electric circuits of this type are pretty simple. Here's my unqualified opinion. Take it if it's good. If not, and you are in the mood for some flame, let me have it.

1. Remove all switches from this circuit. Start the bike. If it starts, you're almost done. There should be two wires hanging losse somewhere to be attached to the switch.
2. Close the circuit by touching the two bike wires. The bike stops, I think.
3. You have tested the switch. It closes when you push it. This is good.
4. I can't imagine how you can miss by installing a switch of this type, unless it grounds on the bars when you install it. I would hook up the switch without mounting it. If it works and stops the bike when you push it, you know it grounds when you mount it and you need to solve it, which you obviously know how to do. Or get a different switch, but it sounds and looks like you have the right type.

Now if I am toatlly out to lunch, don't be shy about telling me.

Electricity, especially DC is predictable. This must be relatively easy to fix, so I wouldn't take the switch back. But I think there are 2 wires on a kill switch and your switch may have 3. Get rid of the one that shouldn't be there.
Tedd

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 12:40 pm Oct 12 2005

Yep..it's simple I'm also sure.

IF the old switch was a rocker with two positions and three connections, it 'worked' in both positions. One way would be 'on' the other 'off'.

You aren't going to get a momentary contact/push-to-connect switch to work as a replacement.

The original switch could still work with two wires (and the new switch not work) if it allowed the CDI to 'float' on one lead to kill the ignition and connect it to make it run. That would explain why a momentary switch doesn't work, too.

The long and short of it...un-like switches..meaning 'not the same' meaning 'can't do that' or 'can't get there from here'.

...or just plain buggered!

dodgy crappers, 'eh?

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 01:45 pm Oct 12 2005

The original switch has 2 wires. The new switch has 2 wires like normal and a little earth strap coming out of the switch that connects the the clamp. The old (original) switch is like a light switch in the way you flick it on and it stays on and you flick it off and it stays off. So when I bump it while riding it kills the engine. The new one is a push and hold down to kill the engine type. Like most MX bikes switch. I'm confused, I'll have another look tomorrow and re-read all of this after some sleep. Thanks guys.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 04:27 pm Oct 12 2005

No confusion is necessary.

The old switch is not a momentary/push-to-contact switch. It is a SPST (single pole, single throw) latching switch....yes, like a one-way (controlled from one spot) light switch.

Not to be confused with a three-way switch, which of course controls a device from TWO places!

Unfortunately it (your bike) appears to be wired in the opposite configuration of what you need to have a momentary/push-to-contact switch work. It is wired in such a way that when the old switch was 'made' the bike was running. You can verify that with a meter on your old switch. In the 'off' position the wires will be 'open', in the 'on' position, the wires will be 'closed'.

So...what you do...get a momentary contact switch that is push-to-break contact. The contacts will me 'made' until you push the button.

Look thru your local hardware store or electronics sort'a place...or like a Radio Shack?

Sleep? Not yet 30 and you need sleep?

Wow...you are old beyond your years!!!

BTW....IS your bike a 'European' or 'Overseas' model? Again, I think at one time you said your bike was a US version.

In which case...something else is going on.

Hey...your 'new' switch is normally open, push to close...right?

It could still be as simple as cutting off that ground strap and isolating the switch from the bars.

Oh well...I just like to yak...........;)

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 01:45 am Oct 13 2005

I will try connecting it off the bars and without the earth strap connected to anything and see how that goes. I believe it is a US version. Plastic tank etc.. I'll report back later.. Cheers

KanuckKDX · Post by **KanuckKDX** » 12:20 pm Oct 13 2005

Does anyone understand CC?

I have read his posts here about 5 times and I think he works with electricity every day. He knows way too much.

:) Tedd

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 12:48 pm Oct 13 2005

confuseus wrote:If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance...baffle 'em with bull$hit

Sorry. What's the unclear part?

Hey...you should feel SORRY for me...cuz I unnerstand it. I think.....

I have YET to see any reference to what his OLD switch actually DID...

Hook up yur meter there, doogie!!

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 01:15 pm Oct 14 2005

canyncarvr wrote:Hey...your 'new' switch is normally open, push to close...right?

Right...

canyncarvr wrote:The original switch could still work with two wires (and the new switch not work) if it allowed the CDI to 'float' on one lead to kill the ignition and connect it to make it run. That would explain why a momentary switch doesn't work, too.

I believe you are right again.

canyncarvr wrote:So...what you do...get a momentary contact switch that is push-to-break contact. The contacts will me 'made' until you push the button.

Yep, you guessed it, right again...

If I can find one that is.

Thanks Jerry, Dave, Ted and spessally you CC. I'll be switch shopping this week sometime, wish me luck.

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 01:21 pm Oct 14 2005

Oh and the mongel down the road stole my 'meter' when he borrowed it and decided to move houses forgetting to return it....

Prick !!! My $150 Flukey too....

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 01:25 pm Oct 14 2005

KAY DEE EXER wrote:Oh and the mongel down the road stole my 'meter' when he borrowed it and decided to move houses forgetting to return it.... Prick !!! My $150 Flukey too....

Bastard! Flukes are nice meters too! I think we need to locate him and "help him" return the meter!

Post by **Indawoods** » 01:30 pm Oct 14 2005

Reminds me of the time we were testing power in the shop here where I work... mind you it's a union shop...BIG TIME! But the UNION electrician swore the power was hot. Afterall it's what he get's paid to do... but we could not boot a known good PC on the power there. God forbid if we had used out FLUKE because he would have filed a grevance stating we were trying to take his job... so playing it smart we unplugged the fan in another outlet that was running and plugged the fan into that so-called hot circuit. The fan was dead too.... Hmmmm.... what could it be?

KanuckKDX · Post by **KanuckKDX** » 04:46 pm Oct 14 2005

KAY DEE EXER wrote:Oh and the mongel down the road stole my 'meter' when he borrowed it and decided to move houses forgetting to return it.... Prick !!! My $150 Flukey too....

But those are Aussie dollars.

Man - you do understand CC. Okay here is where I don't understand and need a picture.

"...float the CDI..." ?????

A momentary switch that closes on contact in a DC circuit should do simply that - close the circuit. But a momentary switch may open on pressure. What does my "normal" KDX kill switch do and why does it work to kill the bike?

And what does that mean "float the CDI"? I presume the CDI generates an impulse for the plug to fire??? How can you open and close by "floating" and shouldn't that be an easy fix?

Thanks.

Tedd

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Kill switch headaches

Kill switch headaches