Help!!!, cannot start my rebuilt engine!
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Thanks guys, after spending so much dosh and time in rebuilding this engine I must admit to loosing heart a bit. I have always wanted a kdx and this is my first, my first kawa for that matter! I will crack it though if only so I can sell it and get my money back!! Seriously this is so unexpected I want it to work!
Ok based on todays experience and the comments so far I am thinking tomorrow I am going to.......
Strip carb and go through it with a fine tooth comb paying particular attention to the idle screw, mixture screw and pilot. Then re try.
If that does not work, I will strip clean and fit the carb that came attached to the engine I bought for the crank cases. Re fit and try again.
I am a little concerned that this is not a fueling issue, my thinking is the use of a very high octane fuel squirted direct into the cylinder and a new plug quickly screwed in and the engine kicked over achieved nothing, not even a glimmer of a start! I am wondering if it is ignition related? All the spark plugs used (4 in total, two brand new) have sparked when they were connected to the ht lead and earthed on the cylinder as the engine was kicked over so that is somewhat contradictory! I have a second stator again from the sourced engine so I can try after the carb trials mentioned above!
I will also check the reed valves.
I have had a fair few 2 strokes in my time but this one feels different the kicker only seems to really start to engage half the way through the range is this normal? Oh yes tried to bump start today, wow the compression does not feel that much on the kick start but wow when you engage a gear (2nd ) and drop the clutch boy does it lock up!
Please keep the ideas coming, I really would like this bike to work! the engine sounded sooooo good when it ran i want to ride it!!
Gert
I
Ok based on todays experience and the comments so far I am thinking tomorrow I am going to.......
Strip carb and go through it with a fine tooth comb paying particular attention to the idle screw, mixture screw and pilot. Then re try.
If that does not work, I will strip clean and fit the carb that came attached to the engine I bought for the crank cases. Re fit and try again.
I am a little concerned that this is not a fueling issue, my thinking is the use of a very high octane fuel squirted direct into the cylinder and a new plug quickly screwed in and the engine kicked over achieved nothing, not even a glimmer of a start! I am wondering if it is ignition related? All the spark plugs used (4 in total, two brand new) have sparked when they were connected to the ht lead and earthed on the cylinder as the engine was kicked over so that is somewhat contradictory! I have a second stator again from the sourced engine so I can try after the carb trials mentioned above!
I will also check the reed valves.
I have had a fair few 2 strokes in my time but this one feels different the kicker only seems to really start to engage half the way through the range is this normal? Oh yes tried to bump start today, wow the compression does not feel that much on the kick start but wow when you engage a gear (2nd ) and drop the clutch boy does it lock up!
Please keep the ideas coming, I really would like this bike to work! the engine sounded sooooo good when it ran i want to ride it!!
Gert
I
- Indawoods
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Push start it....
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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"Push start it...." I second Inda's suggestion.
Clean EVERY thing in that carb.
Vent on gas cap working?
Don't use starting fluids, ever.
If it ran once....then you are on the right track.
What colour was the spark.....needs to be a real SNAPPY, SASSY, SCARY Blue. If it is, then suggest you quit messin with the spark, except to confirm it's occurring at the right time in the cycle.
You're right the kicker is kinda badly designed....but she usually goes easy.
Whatcha been doin with the choke lever?
You need to get to a starting point.....either flooded or dry it out. I've seen plugs that, once flooded, will never support a spark again (go figure) and yet I've used the same plug in my engines for years!!
Back to the basics Gertie....and I'd be careful about ALL those changes you're making IF YOU HAD IT RUN FOR 120 SECONDS ALREADY!!
It did run that long, right??
Clean EVERY thing in that carb.
Vent on gas cap working?
Don't use starting fluids, ever.
If it ran once....then you are on the right track.
What colour was the spark.....needs to be a real SNAPPY, SASSY, SCARY Blue. If it is, then suggest you quit messin with the spark, except to confirm it's occurring at the right time in the cycle.
You're right the kicker is kinda badly designed....but she usually goes easy.
Whatcha been doin with the choke lever?
You need to get to a starting point.....either flooded or dry it out. I've seen plugs that, once flooded, will never support a spark again (go figure) and yet I've used the same plug in my engines for years!!
Back to the basics Gertie....and I'd be careful about ALL those changes you're making IF YOU HAD IT RUN FOR 120 SECONDS ALREADY!!
It did run that long, right??
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Hi Gs, thanks for the input.
It ran for at least 120 seconds, probably more nice and crisp, just dandy, thought I got it nailed! It sounded really good despite choke being on! Then i let it die ( dont say a word!). Nothing after no matter what I did!
tried jump starting it and all I did was piss the neighbours off by ripping grooves in the gravel drive! lol!
Ok starting procedure i have used is, turn fuel tap on, pull choke on and kick! Even using a fresh plug has not got me a splutter!
Spark was more orange/yellow not a good blue. What you think?
Thanks for the comments guys really appreciate it!
Gert
It ran for at least 120 seconds, probably more nice and crisp, just dandy, thought I got it nailed! It sounded really good despite choke being on! Then i let it die ( dont say a word!). Nothing after no matter what I did!
tried jump starting it and all I did was piss the neighbours off by ripping grooves in the gravel drive! lol!
Ok starting procedure i have used is, turn fuel tap on, pull choke on and kick! Even using a fresh plug has not got me a splutter!
Spark was more orange/yellow not a good blue. What you think?
Thanks for the comments guys really appreciate it!
Gert
- skythrasher
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If it ran that crisp with the choke on it may be too lean. If the needle is set to low it will be hard to start. I have been told by many people that the needle should not affect the start circuit, but it will. When I say to low I mean the clip needs to be moved down a position raising the needle.
Hope you get it going.
Hope you get it going.
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Gertie, that spark sounds sick.....under compression you may get nothing. But, I don't want to pull you off the fuel/carb stuff before you have that part 100% sorted.
So9, I second firfighter's suggestion. Maybe ck that spark again....get someone else to kick it if you can while you stick your nose up close and see how much blue/white SNAP that spark demonstrates. Will it jump 3/8"? Or 1/4"???
Just to be safe, make sure it's going to ground before kickin her over.
So9, I second firfighter's suggestion. Maybe ck that spark again....get someone else to kick it if you can while you stick your nose up close and see how much blue/white SNAP that spark demonstrates. Will it jump 3/8"? Or 1/4"???
Just to be safe, make sure it's going to ground before kickin her over.
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Ok guys, thanks for the pointers!
Will strip, clean check carb. I will check the spark and see what colour/strength I get. There seems to be a lot of mods to the wiring for lights etc so I will go over that and check it out - will probably just disconnect everything other than the magneto feed to the coil and see what gives, what do you think?
First job this morning was to check compression, I got readings between 150 psi min and 180 psi max. Gauge is not callibrated but I guess this is in ther right range, seemed a bit too high to me but at least it is not too low!
Will update on progress as I go!
Thanks for the support and keep those suggestions coming, I really need to crack this one!
Gert
Will strip, clean check carb. I will check the spark and see what colour/strength I get. There seems to be a lot of mods to the wiring for lights etc so I will go over that and check it out - will probably just disconnect everything other than the magneto feed to the coil and see what gives, what do you think?
First job this morning was to check compression, I got readings between 150 psi min and 180 psi max. Gauge is not callibrated but I guess this is in ther right range, seemed a bit too high to me but at least it is not too low!
Will update on progress as I go!
Thanks for the support and keep those suggestions coming, I really need to crack this one!
Gert
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Ok another update!
Carb is now spotless, it was very clean anyway. All jets removed cleaned (solvent) and blown clear with compressed air.
Checked float height, the drawing in the full Kawasaki manual shows a different shape float to the one fitted to my carb, but it is the same as the one in the manual photo. I measured 12 mm from the joint face to the highest point on the float. Manual says 16 mm plus or minus 1mm so I guess that was well out and could explain why the bike flooded so easily?
Needle is the 1172 item detailed in the manual but the clip was set in the third slot from the top not the fourth slot as specified. I have refitted the clip to the fourth slot which will, I guess will richen the mixture up.
Going to check out the reeds now!
What do you think about the float height - was it out enough to cause this problem?!
Gert
Carb is now spotless, it was very clean anyway. All jets removed cleaned (solvent) and blown clear with compressed air.
Checked float height, the drawing in the full Kawasaki manual shows a different shape float to the one fitted to my carb, but it is the same as the one in the manual photo. I measured 12 mm from the joint face to the highest point on the float. Manual says 16 mm plus or minus 1mm so I guess that was well out and could explain why the bike flooded so easily?
Needle is the 1172 item detailed in the manual but the clip was set in the third slot from the top not the fourth slot as specified. I have refitted the clip to the fourth slot which will, I guess will richen the mixture up.
Going to check out the reeds now!
What do you think about the float height - was it out enough to cause this problem?!
Gert
- radonc73
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I second the stator. My 84 came with a pair of vintage era boots with a hole in the right boot from kick starting it. I would try that. Mine wouldn't let the RPMs go very high when I finally got it started, my RT 180 I sold to get the KDX had more power I thought I made a mistake buying it. Once the stator was changed I was Very happy to say the least.
Riding is living everything else, is just waiting.
Master of the casual pace
83 KDX 200
93 KDX 250
84 YTM 225 DX 3-WHEELER
Master of the casual pace
83 KDX 200
93 KDX 250
84 YTM 225 DX 3-WHEELER
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Ok checked the spark, it is blue but you have to look close in daylight to see it, tried a number of different plugs including new ones and they are all about the same. Blue it is but does not look like it is able to jump more than the plug gap - by the way I am viewing in daylight (not sunshine) and you can just make it out if you cup your hands around it to keep out some of the light. What do you think?
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- canyncarvr
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What plug gap are you using? Keep it less than .030" (you can do the math )
As I read this, you did use fresh fuel..and the 2-minute run was after that change (and correcting spark timing w/replacement of the rotor)? You checked flow, but that may change as fuel is used.
Use a clear hose, or put a filter inline to ensure you continue to get fuel once it does start.
Re: Digging up the gravel...
Use a higher gear.
You noted the key being in the rotor...the first time. Did you check it after you replaced the rotor? Those keys slip out ONLY when you're not looking!!
As I read this, you did use fresh fuel..and the 2-minute run was after that change (and correcting spark timing w/replacement of the rotor)? You checked flow, but that may change as fuel is used.
Use a clear hose, or put a filter inline to ensure you continue to get fuel once it does start.
Re: Digging up the gravel...
Use a higher gear.
You noted the key being in the rotor...the first time. Did you check it after you replaced the rotor? Those keys slip out ONLY when you're not looking!!
Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well I cleaned the carb as suggested, increased the float height so it was in spec, cleaned all jets and tried it on the bike. Zip! Nil! Nowt!
Checked the spark, did not look too good so took of the flywheel and removed the stator, replaced it with the one I got on the engine I sourced for the rebuild, put it all back together, new plug, started first kick!!!
Sounded great! clean zippy went for a quick spin, it ran beautifully!! Adjusted the idle and it ticked over real sweet!
I think I am going to really enjoy riding this bike!!
A very big thank you to all the people on here who offered advice and support, I came close to throwing in the towel at one point, thanks for helping me out I really appreciate it!!
In summary what was needed was Fresh fuel, new plug, strip and clean carb, reset float height, move clip on needle from 3rd slot down to 4th one down and replace the stator. I would imagine the stator was suspect all along but the carb changes were needed and the fuel change must also have helped. The new plugs probably just offset the dodgy stator. All in all an abject lesson in sticking with it and as a number of you have said nail the basics and it has to run.
I am going to have a party tonight!
Thanks once again!!
Gert
Well I cleaned the carb as suggested, increased the float height so it was in spec, cleaned all jets and tried it on the bike. Zip! Nil! Nowt!
Checked the spark, did not look too good so took of the flywheel and removed the stator, replaced it with the one I got on the engine I sourced for the rebuild, put it all back together, new plug, started first kick!!!
Sounded great! clean zippy went for a quick spin, it ran beautifully!! Adjusted the idle and it ticked over real sweet!
I think I am going to really enjoy riding this bike!!
A very big thank you to all the people on here who offered advice and support, I came close to throwing in the towel at one point, thanks for helping me out I really appreciate it!!
In summary what was needed was Fresh fuel, new plug, strip and clean carb, reset float height, move clip on needle from 3rd slot down to 4th one down and replace the stator. I would imagine the stator was suspect all along but the carb changes were needed and the fuel change must also have helped. The new plugs probably just offset the dodgy stator. All in all an abject lesson in sticking with it and as a number of you have said nail the basics and it has to run.
I am going to have a party tonight!
Thanks once again!!
Gert
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- canyncarvr
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...the 'dodgy' stator?
I thought that was Aussie-speak?
Good to hear!! It's always easier to find one thing wrong than several...but oftentimes there isn't a choice to be made between the two!
Where's the party??
Cheers!
I thought that was Aussie-speak?
Good to hear!! It's always easier to find one thing wrong than several...but oftentimes there isn't a choice to be made between the two!
Where's the party??
Cheers!
Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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Hi the party is in full swing! It's about 35 miles south of London, near a city called Guildford.canyncarvr wrote:...the 'dodgy' stator?
I thought that was Aussie-speak?
Good to hear!! It's always easier to find one thing wrong than several...but oftentimes there isn't a choice to be made between the two!
Where's the party??
Cheers!
Infamous for the ira bombing a couple of decades ago! Dont want to be negative though after getting the problem sorted!!
Loads of oak woodland around here! All contributors to my thread are welcome!! Party might be over by the time you get here but hopefully you get my sentiment!!
I would be happy to buy you a beer when I am next in the US but tend to visit Houston, Dallas and rarely Chicago. Let me know, December then February!
Cheers/Bottoms up/Skol/Salute!!
Last edited by gertie6car on 02:49 pm Oct 28 2008, edited 1 time in total.