Need advice on gearing
- GhostRider
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Need advice on gearing
At the moment my bike is geared with a 13/50 combination and I want a bit more top end for when I head off to the beach and dunes what can I do with the front sprocket (cheap). Would going to a 14 tooth help.
Also how many main jet sizes up on a correctly burning plug do you go up for the dunes.
Also how many main jet sizes up on a correctly burning plug do you go up for the dunes.
- m0rie
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I'd run at least a 160 main on the dunes. CC has a pretty good handle on running a KDX on the dunes so hopefully he'll chime in.
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Do you think the bike will pull higher gearing? Wet beach setting likely it will but if your going to ride in any sand that allows the tires to sink significantly I don't think you will be using 5 or 6th often unless your coming down a tall dune. Of course I'm not familiar with the area you ride so any "help" in this message should be judge accordingly.
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- GhostRider
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Would a 14 tooth help for more top end? if so how much.
Im running a cgk needle so a 155 main with a cgk is roughly equivilant to a 158 is that richer enough or should I put the 158 in which is roughly equivalent to a 160. And Pilot??
Also anyone know how long an E series gas tank will last? Ive never let the gas tank run onto reserve.
Plug chop, I know most people use a new plug to read it better but ive read a couple of posts on other sites saying you should use a plug that has had some time on it already because a new plug doesnt show a terribly lean engine and it doesnt colour as good, dont know how true this is myself but just wondered what you guys think.
Im running a cgk needle so a 155 main with a cgk is roughly equivilant to a 158 is that richer enough or should I put the 158 in which is roughly equivalent to a 160. And Pilot??
Also anyone know how long an E series gas tank will last? Ive never let the gas tank run onto reserve.
Plug chop, I know most people use a new plug to read it better but ive read a couple of posts on other sites saying you should use a plug that has had some time on it already because a new plug doesnt show a terribly lean engine and it doesnt colour as good, dont know how true this is myself but just wondered what you guys think.
- m0rie
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I'd be very surprised if a KDX could pull a 14 tooth front on the dunes. I'd stick with a 13 tooth, stock gearing if you've got it.
Like I said i'd stick at least a 160 in there, your not going to to be spending much time on the pilot but i'd go up a size or two on it as well, 45 or 48.
Your not going to get fantastic mileage at the dunes with any bike I'd plan on 25 miles to the tank and if you get 30 i'd be happy.
New plug for a plug chop. Search the site for the correct plug chop procedure.
***edit***
Did you actually get your CGK needle yet?
Like I said i'd stick at least a 160 in there, your not going to to be spending much time on the pilot but i'd go up a size or two on it as well, 45 or 48.
Your not going to get fantastic mileage at the dunes with any bike I'd plan on 25 miles to the tank and if you get 30 i'd be happy.
New plug for a plug chop. Search the site for the correct plug chop procedure.
***edit***
Did you actually get your CGK needle yet?
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Concerning plug chop. IMHO and all that-
A used plug is more likely to "miss" a lean WOT jetting problem. Reason is - insulator has already been coated: relying on the used plug and assuming you are running "lean at WOT" you may not run it long enough to adequately burn off the carbon deposits on the electrode. Thus you may classify the jetting as good or rich based on failure to bring and hold the plug at temperature long enough to 'clean the electrode'. Also the problem with a used plug for WOT plug chop is seeing where the carbon band ends. i.e. The true width of the band is in question.
A used plug is more likely to "miss" a lean WOT jetting problem. Reason is - insulator has already been coated: relying on the used plug and assuming you are running "lean at WOT" you may not run it long enough to adequately burn off the carbon deposits on the electrode. Thus you may classify the jetting as good or rich based on failure to bring and hold the plug at temperature long enough to 'clean the electrode'. Also the problem with a used plug for WOT plug chop is seeing where the carbon band ends. i.e. The true width of the band is in question.
KTM 380EXC Mine
KDX 200 Mark's
TTR 125 L Wife's
KDX 200 Austin's
EC 300 Tyson's
WR430 Husky - mine
KDX 200 Mark's
TTR 125 L Wife's
KDX 200 Austin's
EC 300 Tyson's
WR430 Husky - mine
- canyncarvr
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14/50 (3.57) isn't too far off from OEM gearing, 13/47 (3.61). Doubt anyone would notice the difference between the two.
I had no problem with a 13/47 final drive on the Oregon dunes, but my bike likely runs better than most 200s on the bottom side of things.
'No problem' doesn't mean 70+mph in 6th gear in dry sand.
I don't understand the reference to needles being 'equivalent to' different jet sizes. JD's guide shows a CGK-155 to be a good bit richer than an OEM needle-158 above 5/8 throttle. Well, that's an 'H' needle.
In any case, numbers on a chart mean pretty much squat. What works is what works. It's been awhile since I've had my bike in the sand, but I was considerably over (2-3 increments) the stock main, and my choices came from plug reads (not color).
Re: How many...sizes up?
Compared to where? From sea level? One or two I'd guess. Sand is TOUGH on a bike!
Something to keep in mind: It's often at least breezy on the coast. That means in ONE direction you are going to be riding with NO air thru the rads, sometimes at pretty good speeds.
IMO and all..strictly related to anecdotal personal experience, but do NOT run an older fine-wire plug in the sand!! Use a new plug, no smaller than an -EG, and preferably an -ES.
Mileage? I've gotten as little as around 20 miles on a full tank. An 'E' bike has a larger tank than the 'H'. Not by a whole lot, but some.
Have fun! Carry a tow strap!!!
I had no problem with a 13/47 final drive on the Oregon dunes, but my bike likely runs better than most 200s on the bottom side of things.
'No problem' doesn't mean 70+mph in 6th gear in dry sand.
I don't understand the reference to needles being 'equivalent to' different jet sizes. JD's guide shows a CGK-155 to be a good bit richer than an OEM needle-158 above 5/8 throttle. Well, that's an 'H' needle.
In any case, numbers on a chart mean pretty much squat. What works is what works. It's been awhile since I've had my bike in the sand, but I was considerably over (2-3 increments) the stock main, and my choices came from plug reads (not color).
Re: How many...sizes up?
Compared to where? From sea level? One or two I'd guess. Sand is TOUGH on a bike!
Something to keep in mind: It's often at least breezy on the coast. That means in ONE direction you are going to be riding with NO air thru the rads, sometimes at pretty good speeds.
IMO and all..strictly related to anecdotal personal experience, but do NOT run an older fine-wire plug in the sand!! Use a new plug, no smaller than an -EG, and preferably an -ES.
Mileage? I've gotten as little as around 20 miles on a full tank. An 'E' bike has a larger tank than the 'H'. Not by a whole lot, but some.
Have fun! Carry a tow strap!!!
Last edited by canyncarvr on 02:31 pm Apr 24 2007, edited 1 time in total.
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I couldnt pull 5th gear in the sand unless I was sitting on the back fender.
180 lbs,Stock gearing,Pipe,reeds,RB'ed my plug was Tan.
maybe I could have went one size leaner on the main.
But at WOT for long periods your jetting has to be right there or Richer
or you'll start a melt down.
A KX500! now thats what you need for sand dunes!
180 lbs,Stock gearing,Pipe,reeds,RB'ed my plug was Tan.
maybe I could have went one size leaner on the main.
But at WOT for long periods your jetting has to be right there or Richer
or you'll start a melt down.
A KX500! now thats what you need for sand dunes!
- GhostRider
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Yes, I rung them up they said id get a phone call when it was ready but we pushed them to look and it appeared that it was there, there useless down that place.Did you actually get your CGK needle yet?
Just wondering m0rie the reason I ask would a 158 be alright, is because thats the richest ive got and I have just put a cgk needle in which makes the main run slightly richer so a 158 main with cgk is very similar to a 160 with the stock needle. Also a cgk in #1 clip makes bike run 10-15% leaner at 1/4-3/8 throttle should I put it up one clip or two??
Thanks again
- m0rie
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Start with it in the #2 position and see how it runs. I think you'll end up on the #1 clip though when you get the jetting sorted out. If a 158 is all you have then its all you have. Run it at the dunes and listen to the engine, it will tell you if its not happy.
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- canyncarvr
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My bike has sounded not happy in the sand. That sound immediately followed by complete lack of motorization and a search begun for a tow strap.
It sounded REAL happy a millisecond or two just prior to sounding NOT happy.
I guess I didn't listen fast enough.
It sounded REAL happy a millisecond or two just prior to sounding NOT happy.
I guess I didn't listen fast enough.
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Be extra careful with that 160 or 158 main
They break off really easy if you tighten 'em just a lil too much, DAMHIK
They break off really easy if you tighten 'em just a lil too much, DAMHIK
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- canyncarvr
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Changed jetting in many rigs dozens of times..never broke off one.
Must be a Big Guy, pork-shoulder-fisted kind'a thing.
True, though. 'Too much' on a threaded brass hollow little thing ain't much.
Must be a Big Guy, pork-shoulder-fisted kind'a thing.
True, though. 'Too much' on a threaded brass hollow little thing ain't much.
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- Mr. Wibbens
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I tightened mine with a nut driver (screwdriver wif a socket on the end of it)
And it broke like butta'
Can't remember how I got it out, that was many, many Obsidians ago....
And it broke like butta'
Can't remember how I got it out, that was many, many Obsidians ago....
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Another thing, DAMHIK, but don't confuse the sound that the front sprocket might make if it were to be slipping on the chain with the sound of engine knock!!!
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- GhostRider
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Took me bike out today and ran it didn't manage to get to to the big dunes they are:
miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles up the beach im sure you get the point.
I did however go up and down the slightly smaller dunes, Anyway did some tuning with the air screw and a plug chop, main apears to be burning correctly, and response well h0ly sh*t just snap the throttle a bit and the wheel pops right up and you have to yell at it to get it down again.
However the response straight off idle is a tiny bog before things happen so I have to get the revs slightly past idle. ( soughta makes a sound like "whap whaa")
You guys have any idea on how to get rid of that?
Appart from that all I can say is woohoo!
miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles up the beach im sure you get the point.
I did however go up and down the slightly smaller dunes, Anyway did some tuning with the air screw and a plug chop, main apears to be burning correctly, and response well h0ly sh*t just snap the throttle a bit and the wheel pops right up and you have to yell at it to get it down again.
However the response straight off idle is a tiny bog before things happen so I have to get the revs slightly past idle. ( soughta makes a sound like "whap whaa")
You guys have any idea on how to get rid of that?
Appart from that all I can say is woohoo!
- canyncarvr
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How far is it? I don't get it............
Rule of thumb (everything else OK): If you can't get rid of a hesitation off-idle with the airscrew, your pilot is wrong.
I'd settle for woohoo, though.
The time you spend getting 'off idle' in the sand is as close to zero as it gets.
Or, in other words, as close to zero as my chances of practicing one-square technique on Sheryl's posterior.
...or anterior as the situation may require.
oh well......
Rule of thumb (everything else OK): If you can't get rid of a hesitation off-idle with the airscrew, your pilot is wrong.
I'd settle for woohoo, though.
The time you spend getting 'off idle' in the sand is as close to zero as it gets.
Or, in other words, as close to zero as my chances of practicing one-square technique on Sheryl's posterior.
...or anterior as the situation may require.
oh well......
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- GhostRider
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I dont always ride sand though, so I are want to get rid of it, would a bigger pilot do the job, strange thing is im runnin a 42 pilot which Is I think, the biggest pilot people with cgk needles use. Some people say that if the jetting is too rich off idle you can get 4 stroking, which im assuming is a bad thing, what is 4 stroking?