200 vs. 220
- Jeb
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200 vs. 220
I would've guessed there would be a slew of kdx 200 vs. 220 threads in this forum. I'll bet the question has been posed more than once. Perhaps I could have done the search different with more results . . .
Anyway, I can't resist asking because I'm convinced that a KDX is the bike for me at this point of my life - domesticated, riding with a youngster (most of the time) on trails/fields, a bit of hillclimbing, an some visits to some MX tracks (he LOVES mx tracks). My TTR230 isn't bad but only after a few months of owning it I realize that I should've gone with the KDX from the get-go. I've got some background with mx - raced 125 class and 250 class in the 80s (back when those classes existed) . . .
I'm off track. I constantly monitor 200s and 220s on ebay and cycletrader.com to get an idea of what I'll end up spending (and I'll look more seriously, when the time comes, on this forum and others like it). I see great prices for '98 - '04 models.
So what are the pros and cons? I've sensed that there are issues with the wrong-sized carb on the 220 and that there is some piston malfunction issue as well with the 220. I WILL end up modding the kdx I get - that's part of what's great about the bike: as my son moves into more performance-oriented machines I can keep up somewhat. Any advantages of one over the other when it comes to modifications? How about power? 'Seems like the 220 should have one over on the 200 but I don't really see that discussed much.
Bottom line is I can't wait to get one! I actually want a model that's as stock as possible so I can see through the mods and sort of grow with the bike. I remember trying to ride a YZ250 some 20 years ago in the woods wishing for something that had good power but that didn't jettison me in directions I didn't want to go. 'Looks like I'll be living that dream soon enough.
Anyway, I can't resist asking because I'm convinced that a KDX is the bike for me at this point of my life - domesticated, riding with a youngster (most of the time) on trails/fields, a bit of hillclimbing, an some visits to some MX tracks (he LOVES mx tracks). My TTR230 isn't bad but only after a few months of owning it I realize that I should've gone with the KDX from the get-go. I've got some background with mx - raced 125 class and 250 class in the 80s (back when those classes existed) . . .
I'm off track. I constantly monitor 200s and 220s on ebay and cycletrader.com to get an idea of what I'll end up spending (and I'll look more seriously, when the time comes, on this forum and others like it). I see great prices for '98 - '04 models.
So what are the pros and cons? I've sensed that there are issues with the wrong-sized carb on the 220 and that there is some piston malfunction issue as well with the 220. I WILL end up modding the kdx I get - that's part of what's great about the bike: as my son moves into more performance-oriented machines I can keep up somewhat. Any advantages of one over the other when it comes to modifications? How about power? 'Seems like the 220 should have one over on the 200 but I don't really see that discussed much.
Bottom line is I can't wait to get one! I actually want a model that's as stock as possible so I can see through the mods and sort of grow with the bike. I remember trying to ride a YZ250 some 20 years ago in the woods wishing for something that had good power but that didn't jettison me in directions I didn't want to go. 'Looks like I'll be living that dream soon enough.
- Indawoods
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IMHO... you answered alot of your own questions.
A 220 has piston issues along with a restricted carb and an inconsistant head making performance inconsistant from one 220 to the other.
A plus of the 220 in the stock form is that has great torque with the 33mm carb.
A 200 is great out of the box. No issues.
Both accept mods equally well but the 220 benefits from the RB head mod more than the 200 due to the inconsistant head from the factory.
Sure... you will hear some conflicting information from 220 owners but that's the way it goes...
A 220 has piston issues along with a restricted carb and an inconsistant head making performance inconsistant from one 220 to the other.
A plus of the 220 in the stock form is that has great torque with the 33mm carb.
A 200 is great out of the box. No issues.
Both accept mods equally well but the 220 benefits from the RB head mod more than the 200 due to the inconsistant head from the factory.
Sure... you will hear some conflicting information from 220 owners but that's the way it goes...
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- Colorado Mike
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problem with the 220 is the porting seems different too. If you're used to the zip of a yz250, you might not like it. I think the 200's have more top. If you get a chance to ride a KTM 300 , try that though. I love the motor on those, but the handling is a kind of strange, seems too precise for my taste. I guess I'm too sloppy a rider for the KTM, I tend to slide around and steer from both ends, the KTM that I rode wanted to turn very quickly and acted very abrupt if it did slide, I felt like it would really tire me out on a long ride. but it may work for you.
Last edited by Colorado Mike on 10:14 pm Aug 01 2006, edited 1 time in total.
Mike
Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid.
'04 KDX220
Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid.
'04 KDX220
- awoodman
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I have the 200 stock and its great...it has some great reving power and some okay lowe end. IMO, and from what ive eard about the 220, go with the 200. With a few mods, I think its supposed to scream. My buddy's got one of those '85 250r atc's and I can keep up with it on my 200 and that thing runs and works fine. good luck with whatever you decide!
- Jeb
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My sister's boyfriend says he had a KTM300 exc and described a hit that made his '01 RM250 seem a bit on the puny side. I myself cannot imagine what that would be like. Perhaps the powervalve was adjusted to open late and hard? I had some interest in the KTMs and rode a 200XC. A bit perky for my present riding style - I need to take it easy often enough to get a bike geared for that. I heard that one can putt around on the 250 version of the KTM. All that stated, I rode a KDX200 recently and I'm in love with what I consider a bit of a dual nature: easy going when you want it, yet fiesty (not too much, maybe a bit mild) when the time comes. Thanks for the details about the 300!Colorado Mike wrote:problem with the 220 is the porting seems different too. If you're used to the zip of a yz250, you might not like it. I think the 200's have more top. If you get a chance to ride a KTM 300 , try that though. I love the motor on those, but the handling is a kind of strange, seems too precise for my taste. I guess I'm too sloppy a rider for the KTM, I tend to slide around and steer from both ends, the KTM that I rode wanted to turn very quickly and acted very abrupt if it did slide, I felt like it would really tire me out on a long ride. but it may work for you.
- Indawoods
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If price is a consideration... the KDX is a much better value. MUCH
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Too bad you're in KY as I have a well-maintained '96 with all the stock parts and most of the hop-up parts. You could restore it all to stock and then build it up again piece by piece!
I used to live and ride in KY back in the late 70's. A KDX would've been superb in the Dan'l Boone.
I used to live and ride in KY back in the late 70's. A KDX would've been superb in the Dan'l Boone.
1999 KDX 200
2001 KDX 220
2002 RM 134
2004 KX 125
2001 KDX 220
2002 RM 134
2004 KX 125
- Jeb
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this is off topic but I can't help it - I actually recognize the bikes in your "garage" - I've been on your webpage! My interest was trying to squeeze a little more out of our JR80 and I'm not far from getting the fatty pipe. I do remember you wishing for available sprockets. It turns out that JT offers a rear sprocket with a few more teeth, and it really makes a difference with acceleration and the low end.NM_KDX200 wrote:Too bad you're in KY as I have a well-maintained '96 with all the stock parts and most of the hop-up parts. You could restore it all to stock and then build it up again piece by piece!
I used to live and ride in KY back in the late 70's. A KDX would've been superb in the Dan'l Boone.
Were you going to sell the JR as is? If you have the stock pipe and want to get some of your money back on the FMF, holler back - I'll buy the fatty from you!!
Sorry, readers, back to the question at hand! So far, no feedback indicating that the 220 has something to offer that the 200 doesn't. What IS the deal with the 220's piston anyway?
- Indawoods
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*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- Indawoods
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Just stock... Wiseco is the way to go!
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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I ride an '02 220
For semi-competitive woods riding and following the kid around, my opinion is that all one would have to do is replace the fork springs and maybe play with jetting a bit so that you don't foul plugs.
The nice thing about the KDX is that it is a pleasure to ride slowly. The tough thing about it is that it can get scary to ride fast unless you work on the suspension, which might make it less pleasurable to ride slow, know what I mean? It did on mine. I revalved the shock and replaced the front end with a KX front end and know it is a bit harsh at slow to medium speeds, but a real joy when pushed hard. It used to be the other way around.
The local Honda/Kawasaki shop has a left over '04 200 for sale, $3000 out the door.
Unbelievable value in that.
Karl
For semi-competitive woods riding and following the kid around, my opinion is that all one would have to do is replace the fork springs and maybe play with jetting a bit so that you don't foul plugs.
The nice thing about the KDX is that it is a pleasure to ride slowly. The tough thing about it is that it can get scary to ride fast unless you work on the suspension, which might make it less pleasurable to ride slow, know what I mean? It did on mine. I revalved the shock and replaced the front end with a KX front end and know it is a bit harsh at slow to medium speeds, but a real joy when pushed hard. It used to be the other way around.
The local Honda/Kawasaki shop has a left over '04 200 for sale, $3000 out the door.
Unbelievable value in that.
Karl
- Jeb
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Agreed. Interestingly enough, although new the price difference is $4100 vs. $6,500, that changes considerably with time - 'seems to not be a big difference in prices if you compare, for example, an '01 kdx200 with an '01 200exc.Indawoods wrote:If price is a consideration... the KDX is a much better value. MUCH
Another question. I see KDX250s from time-to-time. What's their story? Are they similar to the RMX-250, bottled up but unleashed you might as well be riding the mx versions of the 250?
- Indawoods
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A new KDX can be had in the 3K range. A 01 KDX can be had in the 1K range. I don't think you can touch a KTM for that.
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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- Jeb
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Stay in touch. If you can make that work I'll be interested. It'll save both of us some money.NM_KDX200 wrote:Yamajeb wrote:The stock silencer is shot so I'm probably selling as-is, but I might see if I can make the stock stuff work again.NM_KDX200 wrote:
Were you going to sell the JR as is? If you have the stock pipe and want to get some of your money back on the FMF, holler back - I'll buy the fatty from you!!
- Jeb
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Where can I find an '01 KDX in $1k range?Indawoods wrote:A new KDX can be had in the 3K range. A 01 KDX can be had in the 1K range. I don't think you can touch a KTM for that.
I see '01 KDXs for less than $2,000 (high end of $1k range). I've seen some '00 - '02 model EXC/MXC in ebay with "buy it now" prices of from $2000-$2,200 range (there's an '02 250sx for $1,800 right now, it's not perfect, but it's not too bad).
Yeah, the KTMs are more expensive. I just would have expected the difference in prices to be greater! Then again, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places for the KDXs!! Got any ideas where else to look?
- Indawoods
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Check this thread...
http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2819
I bought a 95 for $500 that needed tires and some TLC.... Runs perfect.
http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2819
I bought a 95 for $500 that needed tires and some TLC.... Runs perfect.
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- canyncarvr
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You asked about KXs..
Ski had a KX250 that he got along with great..his previous ride a KDX220. Suspension was setup for woods riding, an EFM autoclutch worked VERY well on the KX.
KDX220 piston? Bad design/manufacture. I've seen OEM pistons with all sorts of flashing hanging out on the underside...just aching to break..which they indeed do.
The porting on the two is indeed different. The 220 can be modified to run better than in OEM trim, but it will never reach the potential of the 200 due to those port timing changes. If you have a 220 that you want to have run like a 200, put a 200 cylinder/piston on the 220.
An OEM KDX200 doesn't have the bottom end of the 220. You can make it run much better in that band with some tweaking.
The OEM suspension isn't good for much of anything. If you take a stock suspended KDX to the track and ride it to much of an extent, you are going to kill yourself.
I rode with a punkin 300 a few times. The guy said had he known what he was getting into, he would have NEVER bought it. WAY too much spit for the woods around here. Lot'sa front end in the air all the time stuff. He said throttle control was a very very big deal with the 300!
Good luck!
Ski had a KX250 that he got along with great..his previous ride a KDX220. Suspension was setup for woods riding, an EFM autoclutch worked VERY well on the KX.
KDX220 piston? Bad design/manufacture. I've seen OEM pistons with all sorts of flashing hanging out on the underside...just aching to break..which they indeed do.
The porting on the two is indeed different. The 220 can be modified to run better than in OEM trim, but it will never reach the potential of the 200 due to those port timing changes. If you have a 220 that you want to have run like a 200, put a 200 cylinder/piston on the 220.
An OEM KDX200 doesn't have the bottom end of the 220. You can make it run much better in that band with some tweaking.
The OEM suspension isn't good for much of anything. If you take a stock suspended KDX to the track and ride it to much of an extent, you are going to kill yourself.
I rode with a punkin 300 a few times. The guy said had he known what he was getting into, he would have NEVER bought it. WAY too much spit for the woods around here. Lot'sa front end in the air all the time stuff. He said throttle control was a very very big deal with the 300!
Good luck!
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