KIPS Help
- Mayor Brap Brap
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KIPS Help
It has become apparent that an ineffective KIPS operation is causing my low end loss in power. I unscrewed the round cap next to the resonator cover and watched for movement of the little circular cam as I revved the bike. No movement at all. I pulled the pipe and put a 10mm on the cam and turned it gently. I could see the little KIPS "paw" move back and forth as I rotated the cam, so it looks like everything is in working order there.
Here's my question--is the problem underneath the right side cover? Will I have to take it off and check to see if it's not engaging from the crank gear? Is there a way to take the right side cover off without pulling the engine out of the frame?
T-three days until the big enduro trip...
Here's my question--is the problem underneath the right side cover? Will I have to take it off and check to see if it's not engaging from the crank gear? Is there a way to take the right side cover off without pulling the engine out of the frame?
T-three days until the big enduro trip...
- Julien D
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Re: KIPS Help
The right side cover will come off without pulling the motor. Removing the rear brake pedal makes this a little easier. It is possible that the pin which engages the governor has become bent or broken due to someone not supporting the KIPS shaft while removing the left hand threaded nut from the pawl gear. If you have observed through the exhaust and all valves move when turning the pawl gear by hand, then that is quite likely your issue.
- Mayor Brap Brap
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Re: KIPS Help
Thank you! When putting this cluster of an engine back together this winter, I followed the case splitting thread to a T, including supporting the KIPS shaft when re-tightening. I'm wondering if I didn't orient the pin correctly, or the previous owner messed it up and I just carefully put their mistake back together.Julien D wrote:The right side cover will come off without pulling the motor. Removing the rear brake pedal makes this a little easier. It is possible that the pin which engages the governor has become bent or broken due to someone not supporting the KIPS shaft while removing the left hand threaded nut from the pawl gear. If you have observed through the exhaust and all valves move when turning the pawl gear by hand, then that is quite likely your issue.
Is there a thread that goes into KIPS maintenance in more detail with lots of pictures?
- scheckaet
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KIPS Help
i agree, could be a bent pin or broken one. if it is so or even you suspect i'd replace it asap (very cheap to replace, the repairs are NOT cheap)
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- Mayor Brap Brap
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Re: KIPS Help
Okay, I got the cover off and inspected the KIPS plastic gear. It and the pin look fine, just like when I installed it:
So what could cause it to not work? Did I not have the KIPS actuators in the right place when I installed it? This thing was straight up and down when I pulled the cap off, and I rotated it forward and took this picture:
When moving this or the paw gear, everything was moving nicely and I could even hear the valves in the cylinder open and close. We're so close, I can feel it...
So what could cause it to not work? Did I not have the KIPS actuators in the right place when I installed it? This thing was straight up and down when I pulled the cap off, and I rotated it forward and took this picture:
When moving this or the paw gear, everything was moving nicely and I could even hear the valves in the cylinder open and close. We're so close, I can feel it...
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KIPS Help
You see the dot on the cam, right under one of the teeth? That is supposed to line up with a mark on the mating gear. This is the timing of the KIPS. I found that Kawasaki did a very good job with providing marks / indications for all gears such that they can be properly put back together without guessing. BTW I am talking about a KDX220 ('04). Maybe different on an earlier model
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Re: KIPS Help
Also, it could be the pin that connects the main valve to the valve arm (under the front KIPS case). There is a shaft running from the right side to the left side paw gears. In the center of that shaft there is an arm that connects to a valve that partially closes the exhaust port. If you take your pipe off, you should be able to feel the valve opening + closing in there when you rotate the shaft. If it doesn't rotate, it may be a broken / lost pin or something else wrong with the front valve.
Ian
Ian
- Mayor Brap Brap
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KIPS Help
Yeah, it's definitely rotating--when I manually turn that cam, the paw gear moves, and vice versa. I can also hear the "glug" of the valves opening and closing in the cylinder. The problem I was having was that the cam was not moving at all when I was revving the bike. I'm pretty sure at this point I did not line the cam up with the paw gear, as I never even took that Flathead cap off when putting the engine back together.iswenson wrote:You see the dot on the cam, right under one of the teeth? That is supposed to line up with a mark on the mating gear. This is the timing of the KIPS. I found that Kawasaki did a very good job with providing marks / indications for all gears such that they can be properly put back together without guessing. BTW I am talking about a KDX220 ('04). Maybe different on an earlier model
- Mayor Brap Brap
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Re: KIPS Help
Okay, I buttoned everything back together with the paw and cam aligned. It works...but it's sticky. When I rev really high, it'll jump forward, but it won't return easily, if it returns at all. The only way to get it to move is revving high and increasing vibrations.
Please don't tell me I have to pull the engine and clean the whole system, which is what I'm dreading doing three days before a big trip. Could there possibly be another cause? Something too tight?
Please don't tell me I have to pull the engine and clean the whole system, which is what I'm dreading doing three days before a big trip. Could there possibly be another cause? Something too tight?
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Re: KIPS Help
take off the cover on the other side of the engine (KIPS cover, not the clutch cover) and see if that is moving when you rev the engine. If it does not move, you know the problem is on the shaft / gearing inside the clutch cover. If it does move, you know it is on the KIPS inside the cylinder.
Ian
^^^^^^^^^
Sorry, posted this right after your last post. Disregard.
Ian
^^^^^^^^^
Sorry, posted this right after your last post. Disregard.
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Re: KIPS Help
You know the problem might be the side valves and main valves, along with the gearing, may just be 'crudded up'. I just cleaned mine this weekend, and prior to cleaning the operation was not very smooth. Post cleaning, the whole system is like butter.
Unfortunately, that would mean taking the KIPS apart...and engine out of the frame. Although, the process can be done in a long afternoon no problem.
Ian
Unfortunately, that would mean taking the KIPS apart...and engine out of the frame. Although, the process can be done in a long afternoon no problem.
Ian
- Mayor Brap Brap
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Re: KIPS Help
Thank you so much for the help. It looks like an engine extraction is in order. I had the whole thing apart this winter and of course neglected to check the KIPS valves.iswenson wrote:You know the problem might be the side valves and main valves, along with the gearing, may just be 'crudded up'. I just cleaned mine this weekend, and prior to cleaning the operation was not very smooth. Post cleaning, the whole system is like butter.
Unfortunately, that would mean taking the KIPS apart...and engine out of the frame. Although, the process can be done in a long afternoon no problem.
Ian
- bufftester
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Re: KIPS Help
All of this is good info, except that a loss of low end won't be KIPS related (unless you installed it incorrectly so that the valves are ope when they should be closed. KIPS affects the top end more than anything else, and engages around 6k, so if you're not getting up there you're not engaging the KIPS system. Low end I'd be looking at reeds, carb, air flow, exhaust flow. Leak down test to verify your seals were installed correctly and are working.
- Mayor Brap Brap
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Re: KIPS Help
I'm pretty sure I installed it incorrectly when I buttoned the engine back up. It now works, but sticks at both ends, so I think it needs cleaning. The first thing Jeff Fredette told me to check was the KIPS when I told him I was missing bottom end power.bufftester wrote:All of this is good info, except that a loss of low end won't be KIPS related (unless you installed it incorrectly so that the valves are ope when they should be closed. KIPS affects the top end more than anything else, and engages around 6k, so if you're not getting up there you're not engaging the KIPS system. Low end I'd be looking at reeds, carb, air flow, exhaust flow. Leak down test to verify your seals were installed correctly and are working.
I am going to take the top end off tomorrow to inspect and clean the KIPS. Are there any tips I should know? How about getting the piston back in the top end without a ring compressor?
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KIPS Help
I just installed my piston / cylinder last night. You do not need a ring compressor. There are tabs (or skirts?) on the actual cylinder (front + back) so when you are installing the cylinder over the piston, you can squeeze the rings on the left + right side and slip it over.
Make sure you secure the KIPS shaft when you are taking the LEFT HAND NUT off.
Make sure you have a new top end gasket kit. Mine came w/ everything...more than I thought! The 3 KIPS cover gaskets were in very bad shape when I took the covers off. The KIPS shaft that drives the paw gears has 2 seals, which I forgot to replace ( ) but in retrospect the looked fine.
I would get some easy off, or some other oven cleaner. The carbon build up on the KIPS valves is very tough. Degreaser alone would not get it off. I ended up using a wire brush + elbow grease.
If you do not have a manual, purchase the online one from cyclepedia.com I swear that is the best manual I have ever used. Every step has a nice large color picture! Why this is important is because you need to make sure you get the timing right when you put the system back together or it will be fucked up.
Make sure you secure the KIPS shaft when you are taking the LEFT HAND NUT off.
Make sure you have a new top end gasket kit. Mine came w/ everything...more than I thought! The 3 KIPS cover gaskets were in very bad shape when I took the covers off. The KIPS shaft that drives the paw gears has 2 seals, which I forgot to replace ( ) but in retrospect the looked fine.
I would get some easy off, or some other oven cleaner. The carbon build up on the KIPS valves is very tough. Degreaser alone would not get it off. I ended up using a wire brush + elbow grease.
If you do not have a manual, purchase the online one from cyclepedia.com I swear that is the best manual I have ever used. Every step has a nice large color picture! Why this is important is because you need to make sure you get the timing right when you put the system back together or it will be fucked up.
- scheckaet
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KIPS Help
make sure you have the right and left sub valve correctly installed, there was a mistake in one of the manual where they labeled them the wrong way i.e left for right.
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- Mayor Brap Brap
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KIPS Help
I took the top end off and pulled the KIPS system. Before that, I manually turned the gears and noticed it was really difficult to turn--very tight. Everything looked good. This is right after a quick Brakeclean blast.
The only place I really saw carbon buildup was on the main valve.
I also think only one of the side valves was spinning instead of both of them at the same time. Maybe that one was installed incorrectly? Anyway, I'm going to wires brush these parts and am picking up a top end gasket kit. It's way less carbon than I thought it would be, so I wonder what's holding the system up and making it sluggish?
The only place I really saw carbon buildup was on the main valve.
I also think only one of the side valves was spinning instead of both of them at the same time. Maybe that one was installed incorrectly? Anyway, I'm going to wires brush these parts and am picking up a top end gasket kit. It's way less carbon than I thought it would be, so I wonder what's holding the system up and making it sluggish?
- scheckaet
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KIPS Help
wire brush and brake cleaner is what i've used in the past.
when I put everything back together, I coat everything with a bit of 2 stroke oil, especially in the collar and subvalve.
I test it before I put it back on the bike and make sure the valve are installed the right way (it'll be obvious if you swap them) and timed properly.
when I put everything back together, I coat everything with a bit of 2 stroke oil, especially in the collar and subvalve.
I test it before I put it back on the bike and make sure the valve are installed the right way (it'll be obvious if you swap them) and timed properly.
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Re: KIPS Help
I think you should get that main valve a little better. Use a pick, a file, wire-brush, screwdriver or something to get that **** out of there.
+1 on lubricating the system. I used quite a bit of 2 stroke oil.
+1 on lubricating the system. I used quite a bit of 2 stroke oil.
- Mayor Brap Brap
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Re: KIPS Help
Okay, I figured it out. First I scrubbed the crap out of everything with a wire brush and gave it a Gunk bath, followed by brake cleaner spray down. The main valve was carboned up on the inside, making movement sluggish, but that was not the real issue.
The real issue is that damn o-ring on the notched shaft. I had to fight tooth and nail to get the thing back in, and when I reassembled everything, it took a socket wrench to rotate the main shaft. I oiled everything with premix, and it was still terrible. Is that shaft supposed to be like that? Should I get a new o-ring?
The real issue is that damn o-ring on the notched shaft. I had to fight tooth and nail to get the thing back in, and when I reassembled everything, it took a socket wrench to rotate the main shaft. I oiled everything with premix, and it was still terrible. Is that shaft supposed to be like that? Should I get a new o-ring?