engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

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dhull3181
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engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by dhull3181 »

I just bought my first KDX 200. Its a 2000 and in pretty good condition. It starts on the first kick and runs ok. I have only rode it short distances around the yard a few times so far. It started to make a whine noise today and when I stopped the bike and put it in neutral, the whine continued. It comes and goes and it pulls a little while in neutral with the clutch released. I am well acquainted with dirt bikes and all levels of rebuild but have never heard this type of noise before. The thing has some pretty load "piston slap" type noise but it sounds like that is probably KIPs noise. This whine has me a little concerned. Especially since it tries to pull the bike a small amount when it is lightly reved during this whining in neutral with the clutch released. I saw a thread on google that really sounded from the description to be exactly what I am hearing. It was from this forum but it did not have any additional posts that I could follow. So here I am for better or worse. I was planning to do a top end in this bike since I don't know the history and the "piston slap" sound seemed to indicate that. Do I have a bottom end problem or some sort of clutch/gear shaft/bearing problem to look into. It sounds like many here believe you need to run the oil level higher than spec and I am not sure where it is right now or if it has been run low in the past. I need some help from the KDX pros before I dig in and split the cases. Maybe all I need is more oil and then I'll just go and do my top end if this whine goes away with a higher oil level. I recorded it on my sons phone and will upload it if that might help. I'm assuming this is not the first time someone has asked this exact question about a KDX. I just don't know how to search forums well for this answer.

Thanks
Doug
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by 6 Riders »

Sounds like you need to change the oil, is it milky? If so you got a leaky fuel pump seal, if not, then..... Pick a good oil that doesn't have friction modifiers in it (a lot of us use type F transmission fluid). Make sure that your clutch cable is properly adjusted as well. Go from there. The "clacking" noise is most likely the KIPS, but it could be piston slap, but I'm leaning towards the KIPS.
When buying a new (to you) used 2 stroke motorcycle, it is always a good idea to take a look at the piston. There are a few ways to do this. The best is to get a new base gasket and remove the whole jug, leaving the head in place. When I bought my 2nd to last KDX, I just looked through the intake and exhaust ports to get a look at the piston. That bikes still runs...well it is in pieces, but the motor runs strong. When I bought my son's 220, I didn't mess around with it, took it for one ride and replaced the piston the next week. Not super expensive, but not cheap either.
newbbewb wrote:^what he said.
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by s10gto »

Not sure on the whine but most here do run a full quart or full liter of oil. The only reason is it quiets down the KIPS. I run a full liter and have had no issues.

A vid may help. Good idea.
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engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by cornishwrecker220 »

My 220 once developed a strange whine noise that would get louder when you blipped the throttle....& go quiet on tick-over.
Turned out the kickstart spring was worn along with the plastic collar & made the locating lug come out of its hole in the casing & was touching/rubbing on the back of the clutch basket !....once a new spring etc was installed the noise went away.
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by 6 Riders »

I did have the spring problem as well, but it was whining constantly. Forgot about that. The only way to check that is to remove the inner clutch cover.
newbbewb wrote:^what he said.
masterblaster wrote:Man 6 riders you rock.
*side note...I'm drunk, so try to read what I'm trying to say, instead of what I actually type
dhull3181
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engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by dhull3181 »

Thanks for the suggestions. I added a half quart of 10w30 as the oil was at the bottom of the site glass. Its just above the window now. Took it for a 2 mile spin on the rode today and when I got back, I heard no whine. I was thinking someone would say it was a trans gear shaft bearing problem. I'm going to do the top end. I was thinking Id take it into USChrome and get them to bore and hone it to freshen it up. I may not take it all the way out and split the cases unless the whine comes back. I think I'll through some ATF in there after I ride it again.

Probably put in the new clutch. I threw the stock pipe and silencer back on it. It had an FMF fatty and silencer. It was a bit loud and I want it to be quiet. It is a pretty blubbery(missing) from idle up past midrange. Where do I start with crisping up the throttle response from off idle to mid range? It is probably stock jetting at this point. needle or jets first? I am used to crisp throttle response like I have on my MX bikes: RM250,CR250 and CR500.

Thanks
Doug
dhull3181
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engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by dhull3181 »

I'm still trying to understand what would cause the bike to want to pull when in neutral during the whining event. I am trying understand how a kick starter mechanism touching on the clutch basket can put load through the driveline into the output shaft.
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by Bitteeinit »

I've also had this "whirring" sound at idle lately. It's weird because I didn't have it before. I took this video to check if my bike's KIPS is operating normally, but unfortunately, we can't hear that sounds very well in it. It almost sounds like a chain grating against something...
[youtube]xSBWznRah8A[/youtube]
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by ohgood »

Bitteeinit wrote:I've also had this "whirring" sound at idle lately. It's weird because I didn't have it before. I took this video to check if my bike's KIPS is operating normally, but unfortunately, we can't hear that sounds very well in it. It almost sounds like a chain grating against something...
[youtube]xSBWznRah8A[/youtube]
that's definitely sounds like it's ready to rejet!

that blubber before it revs should go away easily, if your reeds are tight and the jetting spot-on.
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by Bitteeinit »

Thanks. I think this video (shot at night) makes the sound waaay clearer. Perhaps the thread starter can confirm if this whine is the same as his, and maybe others can chime in as to what exactly is making that sound... I was just giving the throttle tiny blips every five seconds... No noticeable difference in power, but the sound is relatively new. Should I be worried about it?
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by ohgood »

Bitteeinit wrote:Thanks. I think this video (shot at night) makes the sound waaay clearer. Perhaps the thread starter can confirm if this whine is the same as his, and maybe others can chime in as to what exactly is making that sound... I was just giving the throttle tiny blips every five seconds... No noticeable difference in power, but the sound is relatively new. Should I be worried about it?
ya, that's not good at all. sounds like a bearing is done/dead.
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by Bitteeinit »

Dang... Just split the cases to replace the kick engaging spring (which made little difference, so now I really have to find some ATF). I guess the bearing isn't completely toast or the bike wouldn't run... Time to tear it apart again... *sigh*
dhull3181
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engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by dhull3181 »

That is almost exactly how mine sounded before I added the 1\2 quart bringing the oil just above the sight window. I've rode it 3 or 4 times since and have not heard the whine noise. Im waiting to hear someone say diffinitively what it might be. Otherwise I'm going to split the cases and go through the gearbox bearings.
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by ohgood »

Bitteeinit wrote:Dang... Just split the cases to replace the kick engaging spring (which made little difference, so now I really have to find some ATF). I guess the bearing isn't completely toast or the bike wouldn't run... Time to tear it apart again... *sigh*
Dump the oil and look for shavings first. That's a good indicator.
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by bufftester »

As far as the bike wanting to pull in neutral, that is normal for these bikes and can be resolved somewhat through proper clutch cable adjustment and different oil. If its really bad check the clutch basket fingers for notching and the plates thicknesses for spec. If you run the oil low you will hear a slight whining or whirring noise from the case. Since you changed out your exhaust you will need to rejet to get your throttle response back. If you want quiet, but still want the benefit of the fatty pipe, run the fatty pipe with the stock silencer. Either way you'll need to rejet.
Bitteeinit
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by Bitteeinit »

dhull3181 wrote:That is almost exactly how mine sounded before I added the 1\2 quart bringing the oil just above the sight window. I've rode it 3 or 4 times since and have not heard the whine noise. Im waiting to hear someone say diffinitively what it might be. Otherwise I'm going to split the cases and go through the gearbox bearings.
Does this mean you added 1/2 quart to a full quart, bringing the total to 1.5 quarts? Not sure if I'm reading that right. I'll change the oil today and see what comes out.

I should add that my whining noise now happens all the time, so it might be a different issue. However, my bike also pulled in first, but after adjusting my clutch nuts down below, it feels good and doesn't pull I'm first.
dhull3181
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engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by dhull3181 »

I would like to freshen up the top end and replace the reeds if need be. I'd hope the there is a jetting combo that cleans up the throttle response. I would hate to think that kawy would put a model of the kdxs caliber in production that was a blubbering missing beast with the stock exhaust.
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Re: engine whine that comes and goes and pulls

Post by ohgood »

dhull3181 wrote:I would like to freshen up the top end and replace the reeds if need be. I'd hope the there is a jetting combo that cleans up the throttle response. I would hate to think that kawy would put a model of the kdxs caliber in production that was a blubbering missing beast with the stock exhaust.
it will clean up with jetting.
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