Q2: 2 stroke oil priorities

Discussion specific to the 1995 - 2006 KDX200 (H Series) and 1995 - 2005 KDX220R (A Series) models sold in the USA
freeindeed
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: 04:46 am Dec 27 2017
Country: USA
Location: Saint Paul, MN

Re: Q2: 2 stroke oil priorities

Post by freeindeed »

"
Just more food for thought. I won't run any 2T oil that has a flashpoint lower than around 250 degrees. Why? Because once it starts to burn it's lubrication properties start going away! I want it to stay a lubricant as long as it possibly can before it is burned hence why I run Castor 927. This promotes longer engine life overall. Do you need to clean your powervalves more often? Maybe, maybe not, but I haven't ever noticed a difference. Then again, my bike is nowhere near stock and I run my bike pretty hard so I get combustion temps really hot.
"




Yes, and what is an acceptable flashpoint range for the weather/bike/terrain/riding technique for each bike/rider?
For example: from user reviews it appears Maxima Castor 927 (420 deg. flash) or Motul 800 (485 deg) would work much better for riding full throttle for hours in the hot open desert of Arizona than used for blipping the throttle through shady, technical, deep forest trails in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Especially if the Arizona rider also gave the bike the full Jeff Fredette power increases.
(Maxima 927 separates at 35 deg., something to beware of in Minnesota.)

I don't think two stroke manufacturers make it easy to choose what two stroke oil is best for you.
Thus the over reliance on users reviews.

People use to rave about full synthetic Mobil 1 MX2T & Racing 2T. And its flash point was only 212 deg.

Unfortunately I did read a few negative reviews of interceptor. I apologize if those reviews are inaccurate.
Many others have also had positive experiences with intercepter.
So my current short list (for a Minnesota trail/enduro rider) after break in:

1) Motul 710 synthetic (190 deg.)
2) Lucas oil semi-synthetic (182 deg)
3) Honda HP2 synthetic (221 deg.)
4) Motorex Cross Power 2T synthetic (230 deg.)
Jim B
Member
Posts: 284
Joined: 04:17 am Nov 29 2009
Country:
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA

Re: Q2: 2 stroke oil priorities

Post by Jim B »

Jason wrote:STOP IT! STOP IT!

If people read your reply, they may start to think that proper maintenance and jetting is important to the power valves not getting caked up with carbon and breaking instead of a poor design by Kawasaki. PLEASE... Stop the insanity!

Image
Susan Powter! :lol:

I can't say for sure (I didn't take pictures nine years ago) but I don't think the power valve parts had worn at all. I had the cylinder replated in 2009 and the plating was still in great shape at the end of 2017. Clean air filters and lots of oil work wonders...:boogie:
freeindeed
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: 04:46 am Dec 27 2017
Country: USA
Location: Saint Paul, MN

Re: Q2: 2 stroke oil priorities

Post by freeindeed »

I ordered 1 liter of Motul 710 $12.59 & 1 liter of Bel-Ray 2T mineral oil (for break in) $5.59 at Motosport.
kvkdx
Member
Posts: 65
Joined: 10:10 am Jan 08 2020
Country: United States

Re: Q2: 2 stroke oil priorities

Post by kvkdx »

thirdgenlxi wrote: 12:25 pm Mar 27 2018 The Motul 710 will always get my vote, though I don't have much experience with other oils, as the only other ones I've used were the Spectro Platinum SX-2 (which is also a good oil for the KDX) and some of the old Mobil 1 when I first bought my bike. The Motul I've been using for quite some time now, mixed at 40:1..... I don't know how many hours are on my bike total, but in the 3 years I've had it I've put 896 hours and 15,446 miles..... same top and bottom end as when I bought it, and zero problems whatsoever. Still perfect compression, perfect leakdown, piston and cylinder look great, starts easy hot or cold, and runs strong. I do have a new piston for it but haven't put it in yet, so don't have any teardown pics just yet. Lower flashpoint means it burns nice and clean..... I've never fouled a plug and never had to clean my power valve, and it still operates smooth as butter (with the claw off, I can easily turn the shaft with my fingers open and closed). Just a FWIW from my experience with the Motul. It's good stuff :supz:

Image2018-03-27_01-14-15 by Jared Penttinen, on Flickr
2001 KDX 220r I ride single track colorado and am not really on the pipe, was thinking about running the cleaner 710 as well, I run domiator 50:1 now, do I run 710 at 50:1 ????
kvkdx
Member
Posts: 65
Joined: 10:10 am Jan 08 2020
Country: United States

Re: Q2: 2 stroke oil priorities

Post by kvkdx »

freeindeed wrote: 12:05 pm Mar 26 2018 I have not yet chosen a two stroke oil for my newly acquired 2001 KDX220.
My priorities in order of importance are: 1) longevity of the top end 2) keeping the KIPS clean 3) lowering the amount of exhaust smoke
So far I am leaning toward:

1) Motul 710 36:1
2) Amsoil intercepter 36:1
3) Yamalube 2R 36:1

What do you think should be on my short list?
Thanks.
Im running dominator 50:1, I want to try 710, do I run 50:1, 40:1 ?? KDX 2001 220r lectron, gnarly desert pipe open air box w uni filter
User avatar
rungrandpa
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 230
Joined: 11:35 pm May 26 2018
Country: U.S.A.

Re: Q2: 2 stroke oil priorities

Post by rungrandpa »

I ran Motul 40:1 riding pretty aggressively with good results. You can run it 50:1 if you trail ride and don't wind the bike up all the time.
For fun reading about oil: http://www.dragonfly75.com/moto/oil.html
User avatar
Slick_Nick
Supporting Member
Posts: 1675
Joined: 10:06 pm Oct 22 2009
Country: Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Contact:

Re: Q2: 2 stroke oil priorities

Post by Slick_Nick »

I run Motul 800 at 40:1 and I ride a mixture of tight technical and WFO hill climbs and stuff. Every rebuild I’ve done has been clean as a whistle inside.

Not sure what the big deal is about flash point, oils with a low flash point will break down and gunk up at higher temperatures.
'00 KDX 220R
thirdgenlxi
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 489
Joined: 12:09 am Mar 06 2015
Country: USA
Location: Lenoir, NC USA
Contact:

Re: Q2: 2 stroke oil priorities

Post by thirdgenlxi »

kvkdx wrote: 01:44 pm Jan 27 2020
thirdgenlxi wrote: 12:25 pm Mar 27 2018 The Motul 710 will always get my vote, though I don't have much experience with other oils, as the only other ones I've used were the Spectro Platinum SX-2 (which is also a good oil for the KDX) and some of the old Mobil 1 when I first bought my bike. The Motul I've been using for quite some time now, mixed at 40:1..... I don't know how many hours are on my bike total, but in the 3 years I've had it I've put 896 hours and 15,446 miles..... same top and bottom end as when I bought it, and zero problems whatsoever. Still perfect compression, perfect leakdown, piston and cylinder look great, starts easy hot or cold, and runs strong. I do have a new piston for it but haven't put it in yet, so don't have any teardown pics just yet. Lower flashpoint means it burns nice and clean..... I've never fouled a plug and never had to clean my power valve, and it still operates smooth as butter (with the claw off, I can easily turn the shaft with my fingers open and closed). Just a FWIW from my experience with the Motul. It's good stuff :supz:

Image2018-03-27_01-14-15 by Jared Penttinen, on Flickr
2001 KDX 220r I ride single track colorado and am not really on the pipe, was thinking about running the cleaner 710 as well, I run domiator 50:1 now, do I run 710 at 50:1 ????
It would probably be fine at 50:1.... if I remember right from the bottle it said not to go any higher than 50:1. I've always ran 40:1 but 50 should be fine too, especially if you're not going crazy with it
Jakob356
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 01:06 pm Nov 18 2020
Country: US

Re: Q2: 2 stroke oil priorities

Post by Jakob356 »

SS109 wrote: 08:09 pm Mar 28 2018
Gixxer340 wrote:Sorry to hijack, but it is relevant I think.

I currently run 927 at 40:1 in mine but I was thinking about changing (maybe to 710). Any idea how I might have to re-jet? Also, what is the common ratio with Motul?

Thanks
Jeff
Only way to know for sure is to do plug chops.
freeindeed wrote:Buying Two stroke oil is so subjective. User reviews/experiences play a large part in the decision process.
Flash point at least gives us one objective characteristic (among others).
Character alert: I tend to be meticulous (overmeticulous?) in my research as well as the care of my bike.

Maybe you ride more aggressively, at higher RPM rates so the high flash point of Motul 800 did not impact you as much as some riders?
I would be concerned with not only the extra spooge and smoke, but the POSSIBILITY that the top end and the KIPS would be getting carboned/coked up and need cleaning more often or risk failure. Slower riders who torque around the track/trail MAY have such concerns.

I like the sound of that Lucas semi-synthetic oil. The flash point is 182 deg. No wonder why its users say it burns so clean. Then you also get the benefits of both synthetic and mineral oil.

Like you say I might have to try more than one, but I am hoping that my 1st choice will work well for my riding style, terrain and priorities.
Spooge is the result of poor jetting and/or poor engine condition. Smoke? Who cares! :mrgreen:

Just more food for thought. I won't run any 2T oil that has a flashpoint lower than around 250 degrees. Why? Because once it starts to burn it's lubrication properties start going away! I want it to stay a lubricant as long as it possibly can before it is burned hence why I run Castor 927. This promotes longer engine life overall. Do you need to clean your powervalves more often? Maybe, maybe not, but I haven't ever noticed a difference. Then again, my bike is nowhere near stock and I run my bike pretty hard so I get combustion temps really hot.
That's not true. Mine spooges every time after an airfilter service. I find that if you over oil the filter you get spooge. Or if you run too much oil
User avatar
SS109
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5770
Joined: 05:11 am Aug 23 2009
Country: USA
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Contact:

Re: Q2: 2 stroke oil priorities

Post by SS109 »

Jakob356 wrote: 05:27 pm Nov 18 2020
SS109 wrote: 08:09 pm Mar 28 2018
Gixxer340 wrote:Sorry to hijack, but it is relevant I think.

I currently run 927 at 40:1 in mine but I was thinking about changing (maybe to 710). Any idea how I might have to re-jet? Also, what is the common ratio with Motul?

Thanks
Jeff
Only way to know for sure is to do plug chops.
freeindeed wrote:Buying Two stroke oil is so subjective. User reviews/experiences play a large part in the decision process.
Flash point at least gives us one objective characteristic (among others).
Character alert: I tend to be meticulous (overmeticulous?) in my research as well as the care of my bike.

Maybe you ride more aggressively, at higher RPM rates so the high flash point of Motul 800 did not impact you as much as some riders?
I would be concerned with not only the extra spooge and smoke, but the POSSIBILITY that the top end and the KIPS would be getting carboned/coked up and need cleaning more often or risk failure. Slower riders who torque around the track/trail MAY have such concerns.

I like the sound of that Lucas semi-synthetic oil. The flash point is 182 deg. No wonder why its users say it burns so clean. Then you also get the benefits of both synthetic and mineral oil.

Like you say I might have to try more than one, but I am hoping that my 1st choice will work well for my riding style, terrain and priorities.
Spooge is the result of poor jetting and/or poor engine condition. Smoke? Who cares! :mrgreen:

Just more food for thought. I won't run any 2T oil that has a flashpoint lower than around 250 degrees. Why? Because once it starts to burn it's lubrication properties start going away! I want it to stay a lubricant as long as it possibly can before it is burned hence why I run Castor 927. This promotes longer engine life overall. Do you need to clean your powervalves more often? Maybe, maybe not, but I haven't ever noticed a difference. Then again, my bike is nowhere near stock and I run my bike pretty hard so I get combustion temps really hot.
That's not true. Mine spooges every time after an airfilter service. I find that if you over oil the filter you get spooge. Or if you run too much oil
I'm assuming you are referring to oiling your filter causing spooge, yes? The only way oiling your filter could cause this is over-oiling it hence affecting air flow and/or introducing filter oil in to the combustion process. I guess I do stand corrected as I should have included improper maintenance procedures for air filters as a possible cause. :mrgreen: As for 2T oil, you can run 16:1 and have zero spooge as it's all in the jetting.
Youtube Channel: WildAzzRacing
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
Post Reply