Must...dualsport....let the rebuld begin!
- Tyl3r
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1335
- Joined: 06:51 pm Nov 26 2012
- Country: USA
- Location: SW Pennsylvania
Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?
Compression test came out good, 120psi. While warming it up before the test, I took the spring off of the idle screw, and ran it all the way in...figured I'd see what that would do. Much to my surprise... it idled... barely, but it would run without my input on the throttle. From there I played with the air screw, all the way in to almost coming out, made no difference in idle.
So, I put the carb from the hybrid 220 on it. Had the same mods done to it, Gnarly pipe, FMF silencer, no air box lid, stock reed cage and that bike runs great. Still, no idle. I didn't take the spring off of this idle screw, but ran it in as far as I could and still not enough to keep it going.
As I type this and look back at what I've done thus far, the only conclusion that I can come to is that maybe I need to try to go even leaner. When I got it to barely idle, it had a 38 pilot in it. Then the carb I switched to had a 42. I'll try ordering a 35 I guess.
Are there any other rabbit holes I should investigate? Could there be a possible electrical issue causing the low idle? I did replace the stator, I don't know if something could be bad with that, but then again, it didn't idle before I changed it either. I did check the reeds, they are one piece carbon fiber and in good shape with no chips or cracks.
I really really really really really hate to submit, but I may end up taking it to a local shop next week. I did some free powder coating work for the guy a couple of weeks back, so maybe I'll get a hook up.
So, I put the carb from the hybrid 220 on it. Had the same mods done to it, Gnarly pipe, FMF silencer, no air box lid, stock reed cage and that bike runs great. Still, no idle. I didn't take the spring off of this idle screw, but ran it in as far as I could and still not enough to keep it going.
As I type this and look back at what I've done thus far, the only conclusion that I can come to is that maybe I need to try to go even leaner. When I got it to barely idle, it had a 38 pilot in it. Then the carb I switched to had a 42. I'll try ordering a 35 I guess.
Are there any other rabbit holes I should investigate? Could there be a possible electrical issue causing the low idle? I did replace the stator, I don't know if something could be bad with that, but then again, it didn't idle before I changed it either. I did check the reeds, they are one piece carbon fiber and in good shape with no chips or cracks.
I really really really really really hate to submit, but I may end up taking it to a local shop next week. I did some free powder coating work for the guy a couple of weeks back, so maybe I'll get a hook up.
04/05 KX220 Hybrid all decked out
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
-
- Member
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 03:20 am Feb 14 2016
- Country:
Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?
If you give it gas are you able to keep it running?
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
- Tyl3r
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1335
- Joined: 06:51 pm Nov 26 2012
- Country: USA
- Location: SW Pennsylvania
Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?
Yes, it will run if I keep on it. If I keep the throttle open maybe an 1/8th turn it will sit there and run like it is idling. I can ride it up the road, but if I don't keep on the gas when I stop, it will shut off almost immediately.gabegarcia wrote:If you give it gas are you able to keep it running?
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
04/05 KX220 Hybrid all decked out
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
-
- Member
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 03:20 am Feb 14 2016
- Country:
Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?
Try adjusting the butterfly itself, if you can get it to stay open just enough to idle you should be good.Tyl3r wrote:Yes, it will run if I keep on it. If I keep the throttle open maybe an 1/8th turn it will sit there and run like it is idling. I can ride it up the road, but if I don't keep on the gas when I stop, it will shut off almost immediately.gabegarcia wrote:If you give it gas are you able to keep it running?
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
-
- Supporting Member I
- Posts: 489
- Joined: 12:09 am Mar 06 2015
- Country: USA
- Location: Lenoir, NC USA
- Contact:
Won't idle, what should I try next?
Worn reed valves will simulate a rich condition though, so that definitely is a possibility there
- Tedh98
- Supporting Member II
- Posts: 1576
- Joined: 01:08 pm Mar 20 2009
- Country:
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia
- Contact:
Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?
If the hybrid idles and then when you put the hybrid carb on the KDX and it still wont idle, then something else is still off. You shouldnt have to remove the spring so you can run the idle screw all the way in.
I agree that the reeds would be the next thing to look at. You are lucky that you have two bikes that you can swap parts between. Swapping reed blocks would be an easy thing to check.
Regarding taking it to a shop - dont do it. Not yet anyway. You still have some easy things to rule out.
I agree that the reeds would be the next thing to look at. You are lucky that you have two bikes that you can swap parts between. Swapping reed blocks would be an easy thing to check.
Regarding taking it to a shop - dont do it. Not yet anyway. You still have some easy things to rule out.
- Tyl3r
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1335
- Joined: 06:51 pm Nov 26 2012
- Country: USA
- Location: SW Pennsylvania
Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?
What exactly are you referring to? The slide in the carb? If so, how would I go about adjusting it?gabegarcia wrote: Try adjusting the butterfly itself, if you can get it to stay open just enough to idle you should be good.
I pulled the reed block and gave it a look when I was swapping carbs. While it does look good, I will still swap it out. I have a stock and a v-force 3 set that I can try out on it. Is the one reed per side an upgrade? Is it ok that its missing those little metal guard things that go over top of reeds?
I'll swap out with a stock reed cage that came off a good running bike next and see. I'm also ordering a 35 pilot to see if that would help. I really really hate to do that though. I'm riding at 1000ft and 70-80F, I don't feel like I should be needing the smallest pilot available.
04/05 KX220 Hybrid all decked out
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
- Tyl3r
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1335
- Joined: 06:51 pm Nov 26 2012
- Country: USA
- Location: SW Pennsylvania
Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?
Well, I didn't get a chance to mess with the bike last night, but I did talk to a friend who made me realize another thing to check (I think someone else may have mentioned it earlier in the thread too) Check the freakin boot at the reeds! I was only thinking about the airbox boot at first, and I checked that, it was all good. He said the last bike that he bought that he couldn't get to idle, the boot was cracked.
I took a quick look this morning and it looks like there is a small crack along the side and bottom of the boot on the left side of the bike. When I looked at the hybrid to compare, it looked like that one had a small crack forming too, but much less noticeable (of course, why wouldn't it). As soon as I have 10 minutes, I'm going to steal the VForce 3 and boot off the good bike and swap it over and see if that gets me anywhere... I have a good feeling. If that works, I'm buying a new boot for each bike!
I took a quick look this morning and it looks like there is a small crack along the side and bottom of the boot on the left side of the bike. When I looked at the hybrid to compare, it looked like that one had a small crack forming too, but much less noticeable (of course, why wouldn't it). As soon as I have 10 minutes, I'm going to steal the VForce 3 and boot off the good bike and swap it over and see if that gets me anywhere... I have a good feeling. If that works, I'm buying a new boot for each bike!
04/05 KX220 Hybrid all decked out
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
-
- Member
- Posts: 524
- Joined: 08:30 pm Oct 10 2011
- Country:
- Location: Forney, TX
Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?
Cracked outer doesn't mean that the crack goes all the way through, but it's good to check it.
'81 KDX 175
'90 KDX 200
'07 Vulcan 2000 Classic LT (totaled 4/25/15)
'82 Honda GL500 (sold)
'96 ZXi 1100 JetSki
'98 STX 1100 JetSki
'90 KDX 200
'07 Vulcan 2000 Classic LT (totaled 4/25/15)
'82 Honda GL500 (sold)
'96 ZXi 1100 JetSki
'98 STX 1100 JetSki
- Tyl3r
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1335
- Joined: 06:51 pm Nov 26 2012
- Country: USA
- Location: SW Pennsylvania
Got it to idle, but now it's locked, what happened?
Well, the boot was good, no cracks. I put the 35 pilot in it and put in a stock reed cage with stock reeds and it was idling better than it has so far. Got my speedo and everything hooked up and rode it to the bike shop to get inspected. While I was there, he said I should try repacking the silencer. Looking into it, it looked pretty crappy. So I pulled the Turbinecore apart (like all the way apart to a bare housing to replace the packing at the spark arrestor), cleaned everything, and reassembled. The crap that came out was black and starting to get a little gooey, definitely needed changed. Fresh packing, she seemed to idle a lot better and ran noticeably better on the road.
So, I took it out for a hour or two riding some roads and open stuff in the woods. Came home and had some stuff to do. After that, I pulled the 35 pilot and put a 40 in it, which is what it had in it when I bought it. It ran awesome! Best it has since I got it. Rode about 5 miles up the road to my parents house. Got onto their gravel driveway, grabbed a handful through first...second....third---whapow! clunked, wouldn't rev, and shut off. Turned the kicker by hand, and its locked.
Put it on the truck, rolled it into the garage and
Going to pull the flywheel and open the clutch cover after work today to have a quick look-see. I'm thinking I'm going to have to end up pulling the motor though. I am also guessing, if its locked up, I am probably looking at splitting my cases? What could have done this? Wristpin popped out? Did I blow up the piston running the 35 pilot in it yesterday? I just checked compression last week and saw 120 PSI. I never checked the piston to see if the stocker was still in there. But, being that the bike is a 97, it looks like its had the snot ridden out of it, and the compression was at 120, I highly doubt I had a stock piston come apart on me.
Any input on what to look for would be great.
So, I took it out for a hour or two riding some roads and open stuff in the woods. Came home and had some stuff to do. After that, I pulled the 35 pilot and put a 40 in it, which is what it had in it when I bought it. It ran awesome! Best it has since I got it. Rode about 5 miles up the road to my parents house. Got onto their gravel driveway, grabbed a handful through first...second....third---whapow! clunked, wouldn't rev, and shut off. Turned the kicker by hand, and its locked.
Put it on the truck, rolled it into the garage and
Going to pull the flywheel and open the clutch cover after work today to have a quick look-see. I'm thinking I'm going to have to end up pulling the motor though. I am also guessing, if its locked up, I am probably looking at splitting my cases? What could have done this? Wristpin popped out? Did I blow up the piston running the 35 pilot in it yesterday? I just checked compression last week and saw 120 PSI. I never checked the piston to see if the stocker was still in there. But, being that the bike is a 97, it looks like its had the snot ridden out of it, and the compression was at 120, I highly doubt I had a stock piston come apart on me.
Any input on what to look for would be great.
04/05 KX220 Hybrid all decked out
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
- Tedh98
- Supporting Member II
- Posts: 1576
- Joined: 01:08 pm Mar 20 2009
- Country:
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia
- Contact:
Re: Got it to idle, then she locked up!
Have you tried turning the engine over after it cooled down?
- doakley
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1241
- Joined: 02:58 pm Mar 10 2016
- Country:
Re: Got it to idle, then she locked up!
Does sound like a seizure to me.
- Tyl3r
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1335
- Joined: 06:51 pm Nov 26 2012
- Country: USA
- Location: SW Pennsylvania
Re: Got it to idle, then she locked up!
Yea, I tried turning it again. Nothing. The first time I moved the kicker after it shut off, the motor rolled over a little, then hit something and stopped. It made a clinking noise and hasn't moved from there since. Its not jammed from resistance (like a lack of oil seizure or something), its more of a something is in there, out of place, keeping it from turning over.
I am trying to think, could any of the KIPS parts come loose and jam the motor up? I couldn't think if any.
I feel like I want to put my money on a wristpin clip failure at this point in time. Either that, or I did change out the stator on this one. I know I tightened the screws for it good and put loctite on them. I'm hoping that didn't come loose.
Could anything behind the clutch cover cause it to seize up?
I am trying to think, could any of the KIPS parts come loose and jam the motor up? I couldn't think if any.
I feel like I want to put my money on a wristpin clip failure at this point in time. Either that, or I did change out the stator on this one. I know I tightened the screws for it good and put loctite on them. I'm hoping that didn't come loose.
Could anything behind the clutch cover cause it to seize up?
04/05 KX220 Hybrid all decked out
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
- Tedh98
- Supporting Member II
- Posts: 1576
- Joined: 01:08 pm Mar 20 2009
- Country:
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia
- Contact:
Re: Got it to idle, then she locked up!
Lots of good possibilities there, but you are just going to have to start taking it apart until you find the source. Hopefully it will be something easy that didnt cause too much damage.
Last edited by Tedh98 on 01:45 pm Sep 12 2016, edited 1 time in total.
- Julien D
- KDXRider.net
- Posts: 5858
- Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
- Country: USA
- Contact:
Re: Got it to idle, then she locked up!
Did you ever check to see if that piston had really been replaced?
- Tyl3r
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1335
- Joined: 06:51 pm Nov 26 2012
- Country: USA
- Location: SW Pennsylvania
Re: Got it to idle, then she locked up!
YES!Julien D wrote:Did you ever check to see if that piston had really been replaced?
I am going to tonight... I know...I read it on here 23745234072345 times... my own stupid fault if that's what it is....
04/05 KX220 Hybrid all decked out
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
- Julien D
- KDXRider.net
- Posts: 5858
- Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
- Country: USA
- Contact:
Re: Got it to idle, then she locked up!
Sounds a lot like what happens when you drop a piston skirt into the bottom end. We'll hope that's not what it is!
- Tyl3r
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1335
- Joined: 06:51 pm Nov 26 2012
- Country: USA
- Location: SW Pennsylvania
Re: Got it to idle, then she locked up!
Yupp.... I keep trying to not think that lol
Thank you both for the positive wishes!
Thank you both for the positive wishes!
04/05 KX220 Hybrid all decked out
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
-
- Member
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 03:20 am Feb 14 2016
- Country:
Re: Got it to idle, then she locked up!
By the butterfly I mean the flap that opens up where the carb fits into the boot. And honestly I'm not too sure about the reeds, I ran boyseen power reeds which had a chip on them but they still worked.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
- Julien D
- KDXRider.net
- Posts: 5858
- Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
- Country: USA
- Contact:
Re: Got it to idle, then she locked up!
Yeah the reeds are correct. Those metal stops are pretty much only used by the stock reeds.