Must...dualsport....let the rebuld begin!

Discussion specific to the 1995 - 2006 KDX200 (H Series) and 1995 - 2005 KDX220R (A Series) models sold in the USA
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Tyl3r
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Must...dualsport....let the rebuld begin!

Post by Tyl3r »

My 220 that I recently bought just will not idle for me. I pulled the carb and cleaned it out real good last night. I found that the pilot jet was plugged solid, so I figured that was my culprit. Put it all back together, made sure both clamps were tight, so I don't think there are any air leaks... still won't idle. When it is running, it doesn't seem like the idle screw or the air screw makes any difference.

What should I check next? I looked into the reed cage with a flashlight when I first got the bike and can see carbon fiber reeds in there. Maybe I should pull that and check for cracks or chips. What else could you think of? I checked the jets and it has a 40 and a 140 in it, gnarly pipe with a Turbinecore, everything else is stock, 900-1100 ft elevation. I didn't check the needle position.
Last edited by Tyl3r on 10:54 pm Jan 23 2017, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by 87KDXTIMP95 »

Sounds like my rich issue I had. I know you've got experience with these bikes so have you heard of the jet block o-ring typical failure? That can be a culprit. If it's really hot where you are along with that elevation you might need to go leaner jets. I live in Florida, super hot and muggy but no elevation, and I have to run 35/138 in my 220 right now and I still foul plugs every couple of rides. When I got it, it had 45/145 and I couldn't keep it idling either.

Scary thought too:
If the last 220 owner was wise he replaced the piston. If not then definitely needs to. They're the famous ones for going out. But if he replaced it, and made the same amateur mistake I've recently made, and accidentally put the piston in backwards it makes it really hard to get the bike to idle (yea my bike actually ran and I went through the break in procedure and was leisurely riding it before the rings hit the exhaust port, this on my old 200). Slim chance you have that problem but it might be worth pulling the head for.


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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Tyl3r »

Yea, I have heard of the jet block o-ring thing, but thought that mainly caused a rich condition. I didn't think it would effect idle, but I could definitely be wrong. I think I should probably order one and switch it out anyways, cheap enough part. Maybe that, along with 40/140 adding to the richness? My neighbor said it sounded like it was "loading up" when he heard me riding around the yard. I never got a chance to ask him why he thought that, or what the tell tale sign was.

The guy I bought it off of said the owner before him replaced it with a Wiseco. I looked through the exhaust port and it looked like the Wiseco I just put in my other 220 from what I could tell. I should probably pull the head and check tho (dumb question, but can I reuse the head gasket? Its metallic...seems like it would be ok?). Fingers crossed that I pull it and see a Wiseco with the arrow pointing in the right direction (towards the front of the bike IIRC?)!
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Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by thirdgenlxi »

I have seen some pilot jets that just couldn't be cleaned too, regardless of how much you dig around in there to try and get all the junk out.... the little passages are just so small and you just can't get it all out. They're cheap enough, might want to try just picking up a new one (or a couple) and see what that does. Does it run fine otherwise?

Or just go ahead and swap a 200 carb on it, lol
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by 87KDXTIMP95 »

I seem to remember, I could be wrong, when it's running too rich then the air screw nor the idle screw will have any effect on RPM. I got my 220 a few months ago and I was having that issue, no air screw effect, no idle screw effect, very low to no idle, and it had very little power. I ordered the jet block o-ring, put some leaner jets in it, and now there's no stopping that bike. My bike has the FMF Desert and the stock silencer as well. I pulled the drain plug on the silencer and started the bike and gave it some throttle to clean it out and I probably could've filled a Dixie cup with the amount of spooge that came out of that thing. So that's something to think about as well.
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Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by ohgood »

Tyl3r wrote:My 220 that I recently bought just will not idle for me. I pulled the carb and cleaned it out real good last night. I found that the pilot jet was plugged solid, so I figured that was my culprit. Put it all back together, made sure both clamps were tight, so I don't think there are any air leaks... still won't idle. When it is running, it doesn't seem like the idle screw or the air screw makes any difference.

What should I check next? I looked into the reed cage with a flashlight when I first got the bike and can see carbon fiber reeds in there. Maybe I should pull that and check for cracks or chips. What else could you think of? I checked the jets and it has a 40 and a 140 in it, gnarly pipe with a Turbinecore, everything else is stock, 900-1100 ft elevation. I didn't check the needle position.

i chased jetting, idling, and tried over and over again for my twenty year old 220.

finally bought a new 35mm carb and it's damn near perfect. the condition you described is exactly the same as mine:
would not idle
idle and mixture screws had no effect
jetting was hit/miss from one minute to the next, but always rich

now i have beautiful mocha plugs and pulls everywhere.
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Tyl3r »

Did you replace the jet block o-ring on yours before you bought a new one?
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by ohgood »

Tyl3r wrote:Did you replace the jet block o-ring on yours before you bought a new one?

i blew out every passage, including the jet block once it was removed, set float height perfectly, tried new jets, changed slides, even sealed the exterior of the intake boots with grease to test for leaks...
sorrt version: yes
then dropped in the new carb and it was wonderful again.
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Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by jjavaman »

Float height?
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Julien D »

When the 91 I had was loading up and would not idle, jet block o-ring fixed it.
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Ffryno13 »

I had the same issue on my cr250, it was the jet block o-ring.
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Tedh98 »

I would certainly try the simple and cheap things before I would write off you existing carb. So new pilot and jet block gasket.
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Tyl3r »

Well, sounds like I should change the jet block gasket lol. Thanks a ton for all of your input guys, I really appreciate it.

Got one on order, along with some additional main and pilot jets, and other stuff. Going to the beach this week, hopefully when I return, all of my parts will be in and ready to go.
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Tyl3r »

Changed the jet block gasket, still will not idle. While I had it open, I cleaned everything again and sprayed it our real good with shop air. I checked the needle position and it was on the second clip from the top. So I moved it to the center position, which is where my other KDX is at. I also put the same size jets that my other KDX was running when it had the same exact mods (145 and 42, was 140 and 40). I may go back though to 140/40, it does feel like it wants to bog a bit when I get on it, but then again, who knows, maybe something else is causing that. I haven't rode it very far because I don't want to risk stalling in traffic. I should have went leaner...that was dum of me

To me, it just feels like too much fuel is going in there. I haven't checked the bowl height yet because I didn't know how. I saw that canamfan posted this a while back, I'll give it a shot tonight and see where it's at:
canamfan wrote:A quick way to check float height is to take off the float bowl, attach a longer fuel line to the carb. Put the end of the fuel line in your mouth (your going to blow thru it) hold the carb up where you can see the float easily. Let the float hang down, as you start to blow push the float up slowly. It should shut off the airflow when the float is parallel to the carb body gasket surface. Adjust accordingly and if it wont shut off you know you have a leaky shut off valve.
Any other ideas? I should have checked the condition of the reed petals, I forgot to do that, but I will. I'm not going to piss with this thing for months. If the float height, jet block gasket, jets, screws, reeds are all good and it still won't idle, I'm just going to buy a new carb. Thinking down that road, don't know if I should switch to a 35mm carb or not; I'll have to do some reading into that first. I didn't realize you could get a brand new PWK for less than 200 bones. I was expecting double that. Man, and an air striker is only 10 bucks more. I gotta do some reading... :pop:
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Tedh98 »

If you are saying you have another KDX, how about swapping carbs?
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Tyl3r »

Tedh98 wrote:If you are saying you have another KDX, how about swapping carbs?
The carb on the hybrid has a ring pressed onto the inlet bell so that it would fit in the KX125 boot. I keep thinking about it, I just don't want to try taking the ring off and messing it up in the process. Plus, i'm sure it wouldn't want to seal quite as good after pressing it on a second time, as it did the first.
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Tedh98 »

I would just put your hybrid carb on the non-hybrid without the airbox just to see if it will idle.
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Tyl3r »

Tedh98 wrote:I would just put your hybrid carb on the non-hybrid without the airbox just to see if it will idle.
Going to try that after work today, I was thinking the same. I played with it for a little while last night, dropped the Pilot to a 38, put the needle back where it was, checked the floats and couldn't get anything. Wanted to swap carbs but by the time it would be ready to run again, it was too late to fire the bike up and not annoy my neighbors.

Another thing I was thinking... maybe the top end is bad. I've been wanting to get a compression tester for a little while now... I'll grab one tonight and check that as well. The P.O. said when he got it, it had a brand new top end, he only put about 10 hours on it, then it sat in storage. So... maybe something was put together wrong, or it wasn't heat cycled right?
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Tedh98 »

Tyl3r wrote:The P.O. said when he got it, it had a brand new top end

I think 90% of the bikes sold supposedly have new top ends.
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Re: Won't idle, what should I try next?

Post by Tyl3r »

Tedh98 wrote:
Tyl3r wrote:The P.O. said when he got it, it had a brand new top end

I think 90% of the bikes sold supposedly have new top ends.
Hahaha yea, thats probably true. I picked up a compression tester on my lunch break today. We shall see what happens when I get home.
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