How to tell if a cylinder has a liner?

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sthutch
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How to tell if a cylinder has a liner?

Post by sthutch »

Hello,

Started to put new rings in my top end today ('01 KDX200) and found that my piston was crack and the cylinder had some gouging. The odd thing was that 7 of the 8 bolts for the head had white corrosion on the shanks, but one was shiny new looking. I bought this bike in Aug. of '09 and am the second owner. The original owner said he never rebuilt the top end, but now I wonder. How can I tell if the cylinder has been worked on? Replated or sleeved? After cleaning the carbon off of the piston the only markings I could find was the letter "B" and and arrow. Is this a factory mark/piston? I also suspended a small magnet in the cylinder and it was attracted to the sides of the cylinder. Does this indicate that it has been sleeved?

Thanks
Sthutch
Sthutch

1st Bike: '72 Arctic Cat Whisker (rode it to the wheels fell off)
2nd Bike: '76 KT250 Trials (gone, but not forgotten)
3rd Bike: '01 KDX200
4th Bike: '96 DS80 (okay, my 9yr old's and it's gone)
5th Bike: '04 RM65 (okay, he's now 10 and it's gone)
6th Bike: '08 KTM 105xc (okay, he's now 13)
7th Bike: '06 KTM 200xc-w (okay, he's now 16)
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rbates9
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Post by rbates9 »

You should be able to see a distinct line around the cylinder on the top. also if you look close at the ports you may be able to see that they are not lined up prefect. The piston mark sounds like a stock piston. Got any pics?
sthutch
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Post by sthutch »

Here are some pics

The scratches came after I removed the piston.
Image

Image

Note the nice shinny bolt at about the 3:00 position
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Image

Image

Image



Hope this helps.
Sthutch
Sthutch

1st Bike: '72 Arctic Cat Whisker (rode it to the wheels fell off)
2nd Bike: '76 KT250 Trials (gone, but not forgotten)
3rd Bike: '01 KDX200
4th Bike: '96 DS80 (okay, my 9yr old's and it's gone)
5th Bike: '04 RM65 (okay, he's now 10 and it's gone)
6th Bike: '08 KTM 105xc (okay, he's now 13)
7th Bike: '06 KTM 200xc-w (okay, he's now 16)
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Indawoods
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Post by Indawoods »

Have it replated and a new piston.

A magnet would stick to the walls if it was sleeved.
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
sthutch
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Post by sthutch »

Pardon my ignorance, but are sleeved cylinders also plated?
Sthutch

1st Bike: '72 Arctic Cat Whisker (rode it to the wheels fell off)
2nd Bike: '76 KT250 Trials (gone, but not forgotten)
3rd Bike: '01 KDX200
4th Bike: '96 DS80 (okay, my 9yr old's and it's gone)
5th Bike: '04 RM65 (okay, he's now 10 and it's gone)
6th Bike: '08 KTM 105xc (okay, he's now 13)
7th Bike: '06 KTM 200xc-w (okay, he's now 16)
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Indawoods
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Post by Indawoods »

No...
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****

"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Slick_Nick
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Post by Slick_Nick »

Looks like that piston was a few revolutions short of grenading itself. Just in time.
'00 KDX 220R
moto_psycho

Post by moto_psycho »

the corrosion is fine mate, when aluminium and steel touch they pretty much raper eachother, next time you put it together put a little copper slip on them

doesnt look like you have a sleeve.
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Post by gregp »

Agreed. That whole motor looks stock, and untouched, to me. No sleeve. Original piston. The cylinder doesn't look very bad to me either. It might just clean up and be fine.
I also agree with Nick, Just in time!
You will find that stock pistons are offered in A, B, C, and sometimes D sizes. This letter indicates a very slight (0.0001"?) difference in diameter - "A" being the smallest. When you by another one, look for a B or C.
2004 Dual Sported KDX200
1999 Ninja 250 (Daughter's)
1996 DR 650 (stock, mostly street use)
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scheckaet
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Post by scheckaet »

check the inside for scratch and gouges, and see how big is the lip at the top of the cylinder where the ring are a the highest point.
Use a scotchbrite pad to deglaze the cylinder.
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Julien D
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Post by Julien D »

Looks to me like the plating is worn off on the skirts, and some of those gouges look to go all the way through. Not sure a scotchbright is gonna do much for it.
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fuzzy
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Post by fuzzy »

Not sleeved.

Needs a replate.

Most likely original piston, or is definitely OEM (Pro-X) replacement.

To get most of cyl, buy an "A" piston, and send with cyl for plating.

http://www.langcourt.com does a fantastic job.
'91 KDX 200 Project $300 KDX
'95 KDX 200 Project $600 KDX
'94 WR 250 Always a project
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Julien D
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Post by Julien D »

I second langcourt. Fast turnaround, good pricing, and beautiful work!
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kdxmaniac
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Post by kdxmaniac »

you need to replate the cylinder,[if your going to run a stock replacement piston].. the piston [cast pistons] will [break off} or crack at the skirts like yours in the pick [lucky] from having to much clearence in the bore. the skirts on the piston is what is taking the most force, and the piston will litarely walk back and fourth in the bore......and will break the skirts......

if your plating isnt wore thru,[cant really tell from the pics] you can have you cylinder clearance checked. see how much clearance you have...and to make sure the bore is round"not egg shaped"..you might be able to run a forged "wiesco" and not have to replate. a forged piston swells when it heats up "normal opperating temp" so it needs more clearance than a stock or cast piston.
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96 ktm 300
96 XR400R
07 hayabusa
77 kz 1000
85 goldwing 1200
02 BIG DOG PITBULL

gone but not forgotten
96 kdx 200
98 ktm 380 "because it dang near killed me!"
97 ktm 360
96 ktm 250
93 wr 250
94 dr 350s
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TWMOODY
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Post by TWMOODY »

Agreed the bike will run without replating.
Also agreed that the cylinder DOES need replating.
The gouges will not clean up with scotch pads and the skirts
look to be worn through.
Do it right and be done with it........
sthutch
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Post by sthutch »

Hello,

Thanks to all for their input. I am a real beginner when it comes to turning a wrenches and motors, but I am learning. You help is greatly appreciated! I will be ordering a new piston and then send out the cylinder for replating.

Thanks again,
Sthutch
Sthutch

1st Bike: '72 Arctic Cat Whisker (rode it to the wheels fell off)
2nd Bike: '76 KT250 Trials (gone, but not forgotten)
3rd Bike: '01 KDX200
4th Bike: '96 DS80 (okay, my 9yr old's and it's gone)
5th Bike: '04 RM65 (okay, he's now 10 and it's gone)
6th Bike: '08 KTM 105xc (okay, he's now 13)
7th Bike: '06 KTM 200xc-w (okay, he's now 16)
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TWMOODY
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Post by TWMOODY »

>|<>QBB<
sthutch wrote:Hello,

Thanks to all for their input. I am a real beginner when it comes to turning a wrenches and motors, but I am learning. You help is greatly appreciated! I will be ordering a new piston and then send out the cylinder for replating.

Thanks again,
Sthutch
Where do you live in Mi ?
sthutch
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Post by sthutch »

I live in Sanford. It is about 5 miles west of Midland.
Sthutch

1st Bike: '72 Arctic Cat Whisker (rode it to the wheels fell off)
2nd Bike: '76 KT250 Trials (gone, but not forgotten)
3rd Bike: '01 KDX200
4th Bike: '96 DS80 (okay, my 9yr old's and it's gone)
5th Bike: '04 RM65 (okay, he's now 10 and it's gone)
6th Bike: '08 KTM 105xc (okay, he's now 13)
7th Bike: '06 KTM 200xc-w (okay, he's now 16)
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TWMOODY
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Post by TWMOODY »

>|<>QBB<
sthutch wrote:I live in Sanford. It is about 5 miles west of Midland.
You ride St.Helens or anywhere in that area ?
sthutch
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Post by sthutch »

Merry Christmas!

For a local ride, Gladwin. Its way sandy in the south, but the northern loop is fun. I haven't ridden St. Helen. I ride the Leota and Denton Loops. I have seen the connector to St. Helen, but have not rode the eastern part of the state. I spend quite a bit of time about 20 miles west of Clare in the summer so I tend to ride the Evart/Tin Cup/Little Manistee Loops. How about you?
Sthutch

1st Bike: '72 Arctic Cat Whisker (rode it to the wheels fell off)
2nd Bike: '76 KT250 Trials (gone, but not forgotten)
3rd Bike: '01 KDX200
4th Bike: '96 DS80 (okay, my 9yr old's and it's gone)
5th Bike: '04 RM65 (okay, he's now 10 and it's gone)
6th Bike: '08 KTM 105xc (okay, he's now 13)
7th Bike: '06 KTM 200xc-w (okay, he's now 16)
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