E-Series KIPS, Food for thought, Calling Ron Black, Calling.

Got questions? We got answers....
dfeckel
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 644
Joined: 07:46 am Nov 09 2009
Country:

Post by dfeckel »

I had to pick one up in a pinch from the dealer, and it cost me $45. Definitely stings. However, even if you buy all the parts from Bike Bandit or other cheapie parts warehouse, it will add up to plenty once you add in the bushings and the idler gear. $125-$150? If the Brazilian valve set is indeed a stronger material, AND they last longer than the stock stuff, then the price isn't too bad at all.

Hmmm...group buy?
David Eckel
BBR
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: 09:21 am Aug 11 2011
Country:
Location: Amarillo, Tx.

Post by BBR »

Are the stock valves cast aluminum and finish machined? or are they machined from a solid billet?

Anyone? anyone?

:grin:
torgo
Supporting Member II
Supporting Member II
Posts: 47
Joined: 04:46 pm Jun 18 2011
Country:

Post by torgo »

I'm in for a group buy.

All the parts from Cheap Cycle will run me $115 plus shipping.
Sorry honey it was an impluse buy.
dfeckel
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 644
Joined: 07:46 am Nov 09 2009
Country:

Post by dfeckel »

Pretty sure the stock parts are cast aluminum, then machined.

I'm willing to organize a group buy for anyone interested. I'll try to communicate with the seller in Brazil once we have the group together. It looks as if the more we get, then the cheaper the cost. Counting torgo and myself, we have two so far. Please chime in if you are interested.
David Eckel
Fletch
Member
Posts: 477
Joined: 05:59 pm May 01 2011
Country:
Location: Calabogie ontario canada

Post by Fletch »

Someone should ask if they're just anodized. That'll just increase surface hardening and may be an option for us with good stock valves anyway.
Fletch
89 kdx 200 with 99 rm125 forks
chkdx
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 132
Joined: 09:31 pm Oct 02 2009
Country:
Location: Carson City, NV

Post by chkdx »

I would recommend having them "hard anodized with teflon", which is a lot tougher than normal "color anodizing". That's what's used on pistons in Top Fuel cars, which is fairly severe duty.........
User avatar
Julien D
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5858
Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
Country: USA
Contact:

Post by Julien D »

>|<>QBB<
dfeckel wrote:Pretty sure the stock parts are cast aluminum, then machined.

I'm willing to organize a group buy for anyone interested. I'll try to communicate with the seller in Brazil once we have the group together. It looks as if the more we get, then the cheaper the cost. Counting torgo and myself, we have two so far. Please chime in if you are interested.
Depends on how cheap we can get it down to, but I might be in if there are enough people that bite.
BBR
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: 09:21 am Aug 11 2011
Country:
Location: Amarillo, Tx.

Post by BBR »

I'm interested. I'm really kinda amazed there's not a source in the States for these though.

If the stock valves are indeed cast, it's no wonder they break!
User avatar
SS109
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5770
Joined: 05:11 am Aug 23 2009
Country: USA
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Contact:

Post by SS109 »

I'm interested depending on the price.
Youtube Channel: WildAzzRacing
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
User avatar
80elkster
Supporting Member II
Supporting Member II
Posts: 135
Joined: 08:43 pm Jan 01 2006
Country:
Location: Maple Valley WA

Post by 80elkster »

Glad to see this thread is still alive.... I'm interested if the price is reasonable. :supz:
06 DR650 Farkled
91 WR250 2T
00 300EXC (Sold)
79 XS850 (Sold)
79 CR250 (Sold)
78 IT400 (Stolen)
75 G5 100 Kawi (Gave it away)
73 F7 175 Kawi (Sold)
70 175 Brigestone (Recycled)
05 KDX200(Son's)
93 KDX200
75 KT250 Trials
250 Quads
Just glad to be ridin!
fastnissan
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: 06:08 pm May 20 2011
Country:
Location: Flagstaff, AZ

Post by fastnissan »

I'd be interested in a set, keep us up to date.
Fletch
Member
Posts: 477
Joined: 05:59 pm May 01 2011
Country:
Location: Calabogie ontario canada

Post by Fletch »

When someone calls, find out what they're made of and how to see if it's worth all the trouble and cost.
Perhaps sending all our valves into a shop that does "Hard anodizing with teflon" would be a better and cheaper solution...

Just be sure what your buying is a superior product and not just window dressing.
Fletch
89 kdx 200 with 99 rm125 forks
Fletch
Member
Posts: 477
Joined: 05:59 pm May 01 2011
Country:
Location: Calabogie ontario canada

Post by Fletch »

Check this out. Turns out that coloured anodizing is very different than hard anodizing and that teflon additives are just a coating and not impregnated.
Those valves may just be colour anodized according to these guys.
http://aaa-anodizing.com/
Fletch
89 kdx 200 with 99 rm125 forks
User avatar
Julien D
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5858
Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
Country: USA
Contact:

Post by Julien D »

I honestly don't think anodizing is going to have much if any long lasting benefit. Since it only affects a small thickness at the surface, the steel rod will likely wear through the anodizing pretty quickly, leaving you with the same soft aluminum surface. Just my thoughts....
Image
chkdx
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 132
Joined: 09:31 pm Oct 02 2009
Country:
Location: Carson City, NV

Post by chkdx »

Actually, hard anodizing, especially with the teflon coating, is a BUNCH harder / tougher / more wear resistant than bare aluminum. I worked at Mallory ignition, we built fuel pumps that had steel rotating parts in hard anodized aluminum housings with everything immersed in gasoline, and as long as a bunch of dirt didn't get in, the housings usually lasted for years, and gasoline has much less lubricity than the grease we use in the KIPS.

Color anodizing is very soft, and completely different from hard anodizing. No wear resistance at all.
User avatar
Julien D
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5858
Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
Country: USA
Contact:

Post by Julien D »

sure, but an aluminum housing is considerably different than a soft aluminum gear that meshes with a hardened steel gear. Different applicaitons, no? If kaw had used stronger aluminum to begin with, we wouldn't have a problem. I guess anything is worth a shot, but I still don't think anodizing is going to have much benefit in this particular application.
User avatar
SS109
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5770
Joined: 05:11 am Aug 23 2009
Country: USA
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Contact:

Post by SS109 »

The killer setup would be to have new KIPS valves made from a higher quality aluminum. If 6061, 7075, or even 2024, were used we would have a much stronger valve that is still lightweight enough not to cause other parts in the KIPS system to break.

BTW, if your looking for a great surface treatment check out Robar's NP3 coatings. I think their stuff would actually work well on some KIPS valves but it's not cheap! http://www.robarguns.com/precision_coatings.htm
Youtube Channel: WildAzzRacing
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
Fletch
Member
Posts: 477
Joined: 05:59 pm May 01 2011
Country:
Location: Calabogie ontario canada

Post by Fletch »

How do we know that this guy in Brazil doesn't just buy new kips parts and anodize them?
Fletch
89 kdx 200 with 99 rm125 forks
User avatar
rbates9
Supporting Member II
Supporting Member II
Posts: 3164
Joined: 06:07 pm Apr 27 2010
Country:
Location: UPSTATE New York

Post by rbates9 »

I do not have the E series issue my self but the idea of hard anodizing seems like it could work. Yes the internal aluminum gear may still be soft but with a hardened coating it should last much longer.

I work on heavy equipment for a living and see many different approaches to wear prevention and strengthening. Most shafts and gears under extreme stress only get surface hardened to allow the hardened surface to resist the wear and the soft inner metal to flex to take the shock. I do understand that the KIPS valve is not under heavy load or stress but, what the hell if it works than great if not you shouldn't be out too much. If you want a cheaper hobby take up knitting.
chkdx
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 132
Joined: 09:31 pm Oct 02 2009
Country:
Location: Carson City, NV

Post by chkdx »

sure, but an aluminum housing is considerably different than a soft aluminum gear that meshes with a hardened steel gear. Different applicaitons, no? If kaw had used stronger aluminum to begin with, we wouldn't have a problem. I guess anything is worth a shot, but I still don't think anodizing is going to have much benefit in this particular application.
I respectfully disagree. Even hard anodized 3003 aluminum (very soft) will have much greater surface wear resistance than 7075 or 2024. Just use a scribe or key to scratch the surface of 7075 / 2024, then scratch a hard anodized surface with the same tool and pressure. The difference is startling.
Post Reply