KX125 disappearing, will KDX be next?

wanaride · Post by **wanaride** » 09:31 am Jun 17 2005

This may have already been hashed out here...

MotorcycleDaily.com has a Kawasaki press release saying that the KX125 will NOT be available in 2006, but the KX450F, KX250, and KX250F will be. How long until Kawasaki follow Honda & Suzuki's lead and makes the 4-stroke MX'ers into woods bikes and discontinues the KDX???

Post by **fuzzy** » 10:35 am Jun 17 2005

Who knows....When they do, I will not be purchasing one. They will gain a lot of Orange customers I'll bet.

I'm loyal to a 2-stroke wide trans bike designed for woods use....Not Kawasuki

Post by **Mr. Wibbens** » 12:00 pm Jun 17 2005

I thought all the 2 smokes will be gone after 2006?

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 12:15 pm Jun 17 2005

No but they are really pushing to make them closed course/competition only. Here in CA unless you want a '02 or older smoker your stuck getting a thumper for the green sticker...

Post by **KDXGarage** » 01:08 pm Jun 17 2005

I think it was m0rie who mentioned it yesterday about the KX125. The Canadian website shows a 2006 KX125. It is pretty confusing. I don't see how they could sell one in CA and not the USA. Maybe they changed their mind?? I hope they don't do it, but with the stupid AMA rule, any 125cc two stroke engine is seriously underpowered.

Hopefully, they realize that most folks don't fit under the California red/green sticker shenanigans.

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 01:48 pm Jun 17 2005

The US isn't going to get the KX125 for 2006 from what i've read, but Kawi is still going to sell them outside of the US (evidently in Canada). The 125 2T has become all but extinct in the 125 class. Aside from Stewart riding one in 04 they were basically dead. They aren't exactly moving off the dealer floors either from what i've gathered.

-Maurice

Post by **fuzzy** » 02:00 pm Jun 17 2005

Sucks!

wanaride · Post by **wanaride** » 02:28 pm Jun 17 2005

I'm probably going to piss people off, so here goes...

My point is that Kawasaki isn't exactly competitive in the off-road category with the STOCK KDX (don't go off on me, I love mine and I know everyone here has hopped up their bike). The magazines won't even test a KDX next to a KTM or GasGas 200 2T, so what does that tell you? When was the last time that Kawi made a REAL update to the KDX anyway?

Since Kawasaki has two (presumably) good 4-stroke platforms, it makes sense that they will follow Honda & Suzuki's lead and add electric start to create competitive 4T off-road bikes. Honda did that and everyone can't stop talking about how great the 250X & 450X are; dealers can't keep those bikes in stock. Suzuki is already working on a RMX-450...can Kawasaki be far behind? And once they do that, do you really think they'll keep selling the KDX?

It looks to me that the era of Japanese 2-stroke woods bikes is over. I think KTM will be the only large manufacturer that sticks to 2-stroke woods bikes. I'm not saying that I agree with this, but I can see the writing on the wall...

dave04kdx · Post by **dave04kdx** » 04:33 pm Jun 17 2005

IMO its just a matter of time before we will be hard pressed to find any new 2 smokes on the show room floor.

The up side for me is, the current KDX design has been basically unchanged for over 10 years. That means a lot of bikes and parts that are and probably will be available for a long time.

I am keeping my 200 for as long as I can ride. I am fairly confident that Kawa and others will have parts available for our machines. Around 2 years ago I started basically a ground up rebuild on my 88 KDX. I was very surprised by the availability of the parts. There wasn't one item I couldn't find. Sometimes I had to wait for a while or suck it up and pay the stealer prices from Kawa.

My brother (current owner of my 88) works for the Arizona Dept of Air Quality. He showed me some data on 2 stroke engine emissions. A 50cc leaf blower running for one hour puts out more emissions than 100 late model cars operating for the same period of time. I'm sure the emission curve isn't linear for 200cc engines because we all have ours tuned so well!

Anyway, our machines are a dying breed, lets enjoy them while we can.

gwhII · Post by **gwhII** » 05:01 pm Jun 17 2005

Coming from a street-first background, one of the things I wonder about is how many possible adult new riders or new bike riders (and then their kids, etc) will be affected by going with either cutting edge technology OHVs or plonker trail bikes with no choices in the middle.

Part of the reason I bought the KDX was bang for the buck. My KDX is much easier to upgrade than my daughter's CRF230F which is closest in its price point (of what I own or am familiar with). A 250X's MSRP is $6399 and a 450X's is $7199, both of which definitely don't fit into my "impulse buy" category. There's not a "value" bike in the KTM lineup either. I wouldn't want any of the TTRs, KLXs, or smaller RMZ's for the same reason as my daughter's CRF. I'm hoping that if Kawasaki does build a 4T KDX, then it will be trickle-down technology like the KDX has always seemed to have been so that a good upgradeable bike can be bought for a decent price.

Bottom line for me is that if there wouldn't have been the KDX, there's a good chance that the only offroader in my family would have been my son with his XR70R.

-G

Post by **KDXGarage** » 07:31 pm Jun 17 2005

If I was going to have to race against 250cc engine equipped bikes, I wouldn't buy a 125. The AMA made their rule, then the local tracks usualy follow suit for some reason.

Testing a KDX against a KTM or GasGas would be like testing a Honda CRF230F in enduro conditions against a KDX, different bikes / different intentions / met by different price points.

For whatever reason, Kawasaki never tried to make a true off-road racing bike. Even back in the '80's when changes were frequently seen (yes, even from year to year much unlike 1995 - 2005), but developing such new features would jack the price up. At some point, someone says "Hmm, for only X amount more, I can get a KTM" or even worse say, "I can get a Honda CRF, Yamaha TT-R, etc. beginner bike, for X amount less".

If Honda made a sandwich, the magazines would flock to it. Honda = HUGE MONEY. Kawasaki and KTM don't have the resources to field a wide variety of beginner bikes, plus racing off-road bikes plus motocross machines.

Sure they will keep selling the KDX (EPA restrictions excluded). They haven't changed sh*& on it since 1995 and they still sell, so why bother? It's more aggressive than a Honda CRF230F or Yamaha TT-R230/250, so it fills a market.

In the WORCS and GNCC races, they are nearly chock full of two strokes. It's Ring a Ding Ding City. Also, Kawasaki's four stroke platforms aren't the strongest, otherwise they wouldn't be last in line to release a 450 four stroke motocrosser. All the Kawasaki racers are on converted KX's, not hopped up KLX's or KDX's. Suzuki has Fred Andrews developing the 450 four stroke, so they at least show that they are considering making an off-road racing bike.

cmot · Post by **cmot** » 08:31 pm Jun 17 2005

It's all good to me, I run 10 years behind in everything anyway. Besides my KDX will still be pumping in 20 years anyway. It won't break.

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 10:12 pm Jun 17 2005

I've got to ask a question: Just how many Kawasaki 125's were seeing a moto-x track? For that matter how many of any dirt bike is seeing any sanctioned racing event?

A small percentage, that's for dang sure. So if of the bikes being sold, only 1 or 2 percent are used in competition, then why is anyone worried about the AMA rules for displacement and engine design?

Don't the manufacturer's realize that the average family guy will buy a bike for more than just himself if they are reasonably easy to maintiain and enjoy? Bring back the Hodaka, bring back the bikes that made riding a pleasure. Stop thinking we all want to be hucking ourselves off 40 foot tabletops and triple jumps. Marketing bikes like that is turning the family aspect of the sport away.

I read recently that RV's and such saw an increase of 8% last year. Now known as toyhaulers, familys are buying them and guess what they are hauling? Some race ready CR or YZ or KX? No. They are buying quads. Any you want to know why? Because anyone can hop on one and putt away without having to have the skills of a military fighter pilot just to get the thing moving.

If I had a modern dirtbike and a modern quad in my garage, which do you think my family; wife the kids, the grandkids, would immediately gavitate to and ride? Why is that? They all know how to ride a 2 wheel bicycle so why would they skip past the dirt bike and hop right on the quad?
Face it, dirtbikes are too exotic for the layman not to be intimitdated by them. Even with the 4 stroke, motorcycle manufacturer's have evolved the 2wheeled play toy into extinction. Soon all 2 wheel dirt play toys will be gone. Only racers and factory teams will even want them, then even they will be gone when no one can relate to the sport they can no longer participate in.

mattR · Post by **mattR** » 06:23 am Jun 18 2005

You guys may already know this, but for 2006 KTM is changing their 2-stroke line up in the U.S. There will be no EXC 2-stroke. The XC model will be similar to the current MXC. The new XCW (as in wide ratio) model will be the same as the current EXC except there will be NO spark arrestor and NO headlight. I have not seen a definite statement one way or the other, but it is feared that CSO for both will be "off road only".

Hang on to your smokers or grab an 05 while they last.

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 06:40 pm Jun 19 2005

I read that the only reason Kawaski does'nt have thier 450F out this year is that thier frame broke during testing. They had to go back and completley redesign the bike around a new frame. An from what I've read, it's a pretty awsome bike. It's so new that I don't think any of the magazines have gotten ahold of one yet but it's comming. They're talking that Bubba's gonna be on one next season, so watch out R.C.!!

As far as the KDX being around, I have to agree with those of you that have said they fill a needful void in the bike market. Easily modified, inexpensive show room price ect. Really, the only gripe I ever had about the bike stock was the front forks. But as discussed before, that would dramatically affect the "bang for the buck" tag it's been branded with. I don't think any other bike comes close to the KDX's performance in the woods for the money either. I don't see them dropping it from production myself, they sell plenty of them from my view point. I see all kinds of them when I ride. But a groing number of guys are buying KX 250's and modifying them for the woods. Look a Destry Abbott. He runs a mod'd KX 250. I think it's all about the forks on the KDX myself. If they ever did switch to inverted forks on the KDX, I honestly believe they would kick KTM's posterior in the 2-stroke arena. But the KDX over the years has always been met with less than luster reviews in bike reviews in magazines. One even mentioned why Kawasaki even messed with a 220 cc KDX bike.

I think the KDX will be around awhile. If anything eventually happens, I think it'll come down to decideing between keeping the KLX or the KDX bike. I don't see to many KLX's around. Theres a few but I've been told they are total dog's without major mod's.

I would'nt mind having a KX450F bike, but a friend of mine has a CRF 450 X. He rode it in a Poker run race. He told me he would have rather ran his CRF 250 X because the course was so tight that he could never use the full power that the 450 X offered. Plus it weighed more and was a taller bike than the 250 X. So, there's first hand experience with the larger 4-stroke woodsbikes. Bigger is not always better in the woods.
Jon.

wanaride · Post by **wanaride** » 09:35 am Jun 20 2005

I hope you guys are right. I must admit, the pricepoint of the KDX really helped propel me from thinking about riding to actually doing it. It was a lot easier to justify $3600 for a toy instead of $6000-7000. Let's hope Kawasaki remembers this if they think about cutting a line.

Everyone has made good points, but Skipro's point about quads vs dirtbikes is really interesting. Yes quads are easier to ride, but it's not like quads just came out last week; they have been around a while but dirtbikes still sell.

I know lots of people love quads, but personally, I'll never get one for my kids. You can definitely get hurt on a dirtbike, but the thought of a 300-500lb quad landing on one of my kids sealed the deal for me.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 09:52 am Jun 20 2005

Great point about the price point. All the extra pieces - parts in a four stroke engine make the final product cost more money. The EPA and tree huggers don't care what the final price is. I don't know wexactly how the people in CA got in their red sticker - green sticker position, but the legalities will coerce people into buying a four stroke or an older used two stroke. The AMA / EPA lovefest helped to usher in these new four strokes as well.

Another example on all this is KTM. They don't even offer a beginner/novice/entry-level bike like the KDX50, KLX110, KLX125(L) or KDX200/220 equivalent. Way to miss out on a lot of sales. I had a KDX80 as a kid. What was the most logical next step for me, yes, a KDX200. Honda had it figured out long ago with their wide array of XR bikes. Yamaha has caught on with their TT-R line, FINALLY revamping their TT-R225 ito the 230 in 2005.

For those that live in Canada, how are MX nationals classes set up in Canada? I am wondering why they are getting ther KX125 in Canada.

Quads are a good bit more expensive, aren't they? With all the pieces-parts, I would think it would cost a good bit more to have one designed for some small jumps. Jumping a utility 4 wheeler doesn't count.

I would rather my vehicle tip over instead of flip over.

Post by **fuzzy** » 11:25 am Jun 20 2005

Man, I'll bet Bubba would be pissed if they put him on a 4-stroke!! RC didn't care for it too much, and look what he's riding now....

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 11:32 am Jun 20 2005

Quads and dirtbikes are like skis and snowboards:
The kids want them and it has everything to do with instant gratification over the need for a learning curve. Any kid can strap on a snowboard and make their way down a mountian just as any kid can hop on a quad and immediately go fast. Not much skill to get the rush going. In a very informal survey, (standing in line for a lift chair one day) I counted 30 snowboarders to one skiier. This was on a school day too. WOW!!!!

I volunteer as a ski coach for the local high school ski team, until last year that is. Not enough kids even signed up to field a team while we had to turn away 150 kids who wanted to be on the snowboard team.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 01:00 pm Jun 20 2005

Just for the record, Bubba raced a KX250F at the last National last year, after he had sewn up the title.

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KX125 disappearing, will KDX be next?

KX125 disappearing, will KDX be next?