Clutch issues - A NEW 22/05/2011 update (see my last post)

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KarlP
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Post by KarlP »

Lets go back to the beginning........

Did you take the clutch apart only to file the dents smooth?

Was it working before you took it apart? By working I mean disengaging and not clunking too bad into first. Just filing those dents flat shouldn't change anything except make it engage/disengage a litlle smoother. I don't understand why you changed from a 1mm to a 2mm pusher shim.

I've had the clutch pack in my workbench and used that to 'open' the clutch. The plates still didn't want to slide over each other. There is a great deal of ''sticktion'' between the friction and steel plates.
There would be. You'd feel a lot of "stiction" with the clutch on the bench. "Feelings" don't mean much.

I think you are putting it back together wrong. Everything has to go back on in the right order and facing the right way or it will do what you are describing. I ususally have to try 3 times before I get it right
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Post by engybenjy »

Everything is back as it was. Thrust washer is in, in between the basket and clutch 'pack'. Gone back to a 1mm spacer and it still drags the bike forward.
This is not right, full stop. With a clutch disengaged there should be no power transmitted.
The amount of force required to get the plates to slide over one another is excessive to say the least. Yes, there should be some resistance there but nowhere near as much as there is!!
One question that has occurred to me, Are the friction plates directional? They don't seem to be nor are they marked.

The whole thing has been rebuilt as it is described in the Kawa workshop manual.

I personally think the friction plates are either wrong or contaminated. I'm going to try and acquire a new set and start from the beginning as I have no history with this bike and the oil that came out doesn't inspire much confidence.

ATB, Ben
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Indawoods
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Post by Indawoods »

Sounds like a plan to me...
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Griffbones
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Post by Griffbones »

Do you have the correct number of friction and steel disks installed?

A clutch is an easy thing to work on once you know how they really work, there is no magic, the frictions are not directional, it is really quite straight forward. If the basket is shot, then it is shot. If the frictions are worn or swollen up, they are shot. Install a new basket, thrust washers and a new set of clutch plates both frictions and steels. Be sure to check the throw out bearing and the shaft bearing that the basket rides on too.

If you do not understand how it works, seek the help of a friend or mechanic who does, this way you stop your frustration, and the next time you will know how to do this work properly.

No offense is intended in this post, everyone has to start some where when it comes to learning mechanical things. Best of luck friend. :grin:
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Post by engybenjy »

No offense taken. I know nothing of wet multi-plate clutchs. Single plate dry, as in a car and multi-plate air operated that I see at work = no worries.
I know what I'm seeing is wrong but why it is wrong is the stumbleblock.


Out of interest, how many plates ( friction and steel ) do you guys have in your '95-on KDX200's??

ATB, Ben
Last edited by engybenjy on 06:19 am Aug 21 2010, edited 1 time in total.
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doctord23
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Post by doctord23 »

Did you check the springs? Are they all the same height?
A weak spring could cause the problems that you are describing.
Replace them.
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Griffbones
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Post by Griffbones »

Ben
Where do you live? If you are close enough to bring the bike to me, I would be glad to give you a hand fixing your clutch at no charge! Of course you buy your own parts.:grin: I am located in Southwest Iowa about 60 miles from Omaha, Neb.
Duane
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'97 DR350 (407cc)
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Post by engybenjy »

Griff, Many Thanks for the offer but alas you are several thousand miles across the Atlantic from me!!

Springs are all well within length and even.
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Griffbones
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Post by Griffbones »

>|<>QBB<
engybenjy wrote:Griff, Many Thanks for the offer but alas you are several thousand miles across the Atlantic from me!!

Springs are all well within length and even.
Well then I guess working on it for you is out of the question, unless you are inviting me on an all expense paid vacation across the pond. :mrgreen:
'83 CR60R Fully restored
'97 DR350 (407cc)
2005 KX85 (103.5cc)
2006 KDX 200 (Bone stock other than Jetting, Gnarley woods, Turbine Core II)
2007 250 XC-W (SX head)
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Post by engybenjy »

If my Lotto numbers come up, i'll be heading your way across the Pond!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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TWMOODY
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Post by TWMOODY »

Did you take the clutch apart only to file the dents smooth?

Was it working before you took it apart?????????????????????????

You never answered the question asked from few days ago.
engybenjy
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Post by engybenjy »

I took the clutch apart to find out why it wasnt disengaging properly. Over the last couple of months the issue has got steadily worse, so that I actually had to hold the bike on the brake while keeping revs on to stop it stalling whilst stopped at traffic lights.

How many friction plates are you guys running in your '95-on KDX200's??????
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engybenjy
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Post by engybenjy »

Well I bit the bullet today and removed a plate from the clutch. It now works well, neutral is fairly easy to find, it doesnt slip and it feels about right.

Hopefully it will last me till I get the new one, oh yeah and sort the water pump seal :roll: more joy!

Cheers All, Ben
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And nothing says bad workmanship like wrinkles in the kidnap tape!!!
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jlove1974
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Post by jlove1974 »

also, not sure if this helps but when putting new friction plates into a wet clutch of any kind (limited slip diff, electronic transfer case, bike clutch) I find it beneficial to soak the friction material in whatever fluid you are going to be using overnight.

This keeps the friction material from chattering and binding, which may have been what was binding on your clutch and transferring power....
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Griffbones
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Post by Griffbones »

Just make sure you start with a friction disk and end with a friction disk. You do not want a metal disk against the clutch's center hub or against the pressure plate. In other words, there should be one more friction disk than there are steel disks.

I do not know how many disks are in the KDX clutch as I have not had to replace ours yet. But a good example is my KTM, which has 9 friction disks and 8 steel disks. Most all clutches start and end with a friction disk.
'83 CR60R Fully restored
'97 DR350 (407cc)
2005 KX85 (103.5cc)
2006 KDX 200 (Bone stock other than Jetting, Gnarley woods, Turbine Core II)
2007 250 XC-W (SX head)
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Post by engybenjy »

See first post for update ;)

cheers,
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Slick_Nick
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Post by Slick_Nick »

According to the update, you now have two friction plates "face to face?!!?!"

BAD idea...
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engybenjy
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Post by engybenjy »

^^^^ Care to expand that a little?? Perhaps even give a reason?

I know its not ideal but it'll survive till my new pack turns up ;)
Now i've had the thing apart, i understand exactly how the the whole system works, and its not a great design. The initial problem with my clutch was caused by having too many discs and plates in the first place. This meant that the clutch lever/cable/actuating rod didn't provide enough movement to separate the clutch 'pack'.
This is why I keep asking HOW MANY DISCS AND PLATES ARE IN YOUR H-SERIES CLUTCH?????

I ask this because my H1 1995 bike had 7 steel discs and 8 friction plates!
From everything I can find including making phone calls, this is the wrong pack for this bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
An E-series has 8 friction plates and is less than half the price of the H-series clutch........ I rest my carrierbag ;)

ATB,
Ben
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Slick_Nick
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Post by Slick_Nick »

Two friction Plates against each other will just burn themselves out right away. You need to start and end with a friction plate on each side, with metal plates in between. Did you reinstall the stock cushion rings when you fit the new clutch? The cushion rings are not used on aftermarket clutch kits unless specifically called for. Look in my rebuild thread for pics of my clutch and count the plates.
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Post by engybenjy »

Not fitted new clutch yet, waiting for delivery ;)
I would have to disagree with you on the speed at which those two friction plates will wear. There is plenty of decent oil in there and I don't rag the bike about, its only used on road at the moment around town. So they should be ok for now, they wont be in for long.

I shall check your build thread out.

Cheers, Ben
Gaffa Tape is like the Force. It has a Dark Side, A Light Side and it binds the universe together.
And nothing says bad workmanship like wrinkles in the kidnap tape!!!
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