98 220 performance

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johnyblaze
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98 220 performance

Post by johnyblaze »

Sorry to bother the collective yet again, but....

I have the opportunity to look at (1 hour away) a 98 220 with new piston, bored carb, FMF pipe and silencer, botesen reeds, fatbar, and heavier fork springs. For the price it LOOKS like a good deal. Needs sprockets and a rear fender which is broken.

My question - how much of a performance gain can I expect over a stock 200? A little or a lot?

Also, I'll want a 100W stator to run a DS kit for legal trailing. I see mention of a rewind or kit for $120. Would this actually run a low power hi/low headlight with LED blinkers and taillight? This is a must for me as I HATE to load/unload a bike.

Thanks again for the info
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Post by Indawoods »

Gain over a 200? :hmm:

Don't know.... not all bikes are upgraded equally.
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Post by johnyblaze »

My question was stated poorly - let me start over. I've ridden both and I prefer a stock 200 over a stock 220 due to the additional topend on the 200. The bike in question is a modified 220 - pipe, reeds, and bored/rejetted carb.

After all that my question is really - how will this one compare with a stock 200? A bit better, or a lot better power wise?

220 guys - here's your chance to talk them up.
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Post by kawagumby »

I owned both at the same time. Stock, they both suck power-wise IMO, but with the right aftermarket pipe they both shine. I can only compare similarly modded bikes since I tossed the stock pipes upon arrival. The 220 had the fmf rev, the 200 had the fmf torque pipe. Both had boyesen reeds. Both had stock carbs that were jetted right on. The 220 had more power everywhere in the rpm ranges I used.... but I don't tend to buzz a bike past where it will not pull the hardest. The fmf equipped 200 has good power that makes you tend to keep the rpms a little higher all the time to make the best use of it. If you are worried about top end with a modified 220, don't - with the rev pipe (I assume the bike you are looking at has the rev pipe) it will wind out very nicely with great linear torque at mid to upper mid rpms - I don't have a bored carb on the one I own now and it revs out very well indeed.

The 220 also responds well to the RB head mod, which is an inexpensive mod.
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Post by johnyblaze »

Thanks Gumby - yes, it appears to have the rev pipe. Thanks for your input - just what I was hoping for.
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Post by Green Hornet »

My 220 is my 2 stroke 4 stroke......Top End...???? How fast can you ride on your trails?? If WOFT is your answer then TOP END Matters. They are both GREAT MOTORS, but I wounder why Fredette chose the 220 over the 200 for the ISDE????
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Post by Julien D »

The argument comes up time and time again. The biggest issue to overcome with the 220 is the super mellow porting. You can add all the mods you want, and it's still not going to have the top end of a 200. It's easier to get incredible low end from the 200 than it is to get decent top end from a 220. Either one will make a great trail machine, obviously.
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Post by kawagumby »

Juliend, I think you might be oversimplifying the situation with regard to porting on the 220. My experience is that the porting does not prove to be a barrier to higher rpm power. If you can ride places that offer less vertical challenges to the H model's higher rpm power output, then the 200 is an excellent machine, and probably a better choice for most folks who like to dice with their buddies in more open terrain. I raced KDX 200's (c, h, and e models) on cross-country courses for about a decade (some race pictures are in my gallery ), and I am very familiar with how each produces horsepower. My last race on a KDX was the 1998 or 99 (I forget) Virginia City Grand Prix (painful race, cased it over a large jump) but I was on a 220 that performed very well engine-wise. A desert bike it is not though, heh.

I think both are great machines, but I have to disagree with your statement regarding getting more low-end from an H model 200 more easily than getting top end out of a 220...there's really not much you can do that I know of to get more low rpm torque from the latest model 200 than a pipe and maybe reeds. A flywheel weight helps momentum but won't help raise rpm's. My modified H model 200 would struggle on technical hills that were more easily made by my stock E model or even a stock 220. If I could not keep the rpm's up, the larger H model carb and more wide open porting would force a downshift or clutch fan (or worse, the dreaded dab). This isn't an issue for most riders, but using a kdx in such challenging trail situations is what it's all about for me and a lot of others out there.

When speaking of higher rpm torque, the most telling difference is apparent in a long full-throttle hillclimb situation. With a modified 220 vs a modifed 200 both will climb very well until you hit some sort of power-sucking soft terrain or obstacle...the modified 200 will be more likely to fall off the pipe than the 220 - both are revving like hell, btw. Honesty, I could care less which bike someone chooses or even what I ride most of the time, but I like to share my observations which are based on a lot of time on both bikes. It's just info to help choose the right tool for the kind of job we take on out there. :supz: Hill-climbing at Clear Creek on my 220 made a lot of guys' eyes pop out - it was that good... all at high rpm that I would associate with being upper mid-range on most bikes. Most could not believe it was only a 220.
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Post by Indawoods »

Personally... I'd be happy with either one.... just happy that I am still riding.

I have owned a 92 KDX 200 and my current 95....

I liked the 92 motor better but the ergo's of the 95 better.

If I could just get my hands on a E series motor... it would go in my current frame.
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Post by kawagumby »

Inda,
I agree with you being happy to still be riding. My back is such a mess now I might be done forever with real off-roading. I've only ridden 6-7 times this year and I really miss the challenge of the trails. But I don't want to sell my KDX either. I don't know what to do....I'm really bummed out.

Is the gallery gone now? I couldn't find it.
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Post by Indawoods »

Yes... unfortunately they first disabled uploading because of a security risk and then ran a quota on the site and I was 800 meg over my limit. Had no choice at that point but to remove it. :?


Well... one good thing about the KDX... it is a great trail bike. Nothing saying you can't just enjoy a day out exploring..... :wink:
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Post by kawagumby »

Yeah, in this economy I'd have to sell it for peanuts anyway... who knows, maybe while I'm sitting on a couch watching Oprah, I'll build up enough natural padding to absorb trail pounding. I kept the original heavy rear spring...yeah, mebbe that'll work!
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Post by Julien D »

Good post Kawa. You're absolutely right, I do over-simplify it. I tend to do that with a lot of things, especially the sort of things that come up over and over again. The fact remains, and as you've pointed out, both bikes make excellent trail machines, and the 220 has an added tractor factor over the 200.

On a side note, last time I was down at Brown mtn there must have been 5 or 6 KDX's out there. At least a couple 220's, a couple H 200's, and I also saw an E series that was in perfect condition. There's some spots out at brown where we can really see the KDX shine!

Inda, there's an 89 engine on ebay right now. Seller only want's $650 for it. :shock:
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Post by gregp »

My '04 200 has a partial Baja Designs kit installed on it. It has the stock headlight, which I wired up for high and low beams, the BD tail light, rear diredtionals, and a horn. The blue LED high beam indicator (required here in MA) is built into the switch pod. There is also a hydraulic rear brake light switch installed. To complete the bike for state inspection, I just need to add front LED directionals, a mirror, and a front hydraulic brake light switch. I hope that I can get away with not adding a keyed ignition switch.
The system runs with a small 12v ni-cad installed behind the headlight.
Anyway, since the stock headlight bulb is 35w/35w, I am pretty sure that the lighting coil is stock, but I have not pulled the flywheel to check.
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Post by johnyblaze »

Thanks for the replys folks. My intent for topend really wasn't desert racing. I need to get to and from the trails legally and want a bike that won't hesitate pulling 60 on the tarmac. In reality our trails are rocky, rooty, snotty and steep here in west central maine. I'm darned lucky if I average 20 mph on these trails.

gregp - I take it the stock headlight is dual filament - I can make that work. How about the tailight - single or dual?

Looks like I asked too many questions on the '98 with all the goodies. Owner hasn't emailed in 2 days so I guess it's gone. That's OK - we have several for sale within 100 miles or so - more will come available and riding is done here in the northcountry.

Thanks again
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: 'a bike that won't hesitate pulling 60 on the tarmac.'

My 200 will run well over 70mph, and that with a 12x47 final drive, but it's wound pretty tight at that point. By KDX standards anyway.

I wouldn't hesitate to run it at 60mph..but I wouldn't want to do that for miles.

A 20mph average trail speed 'round here isn't anything I ever get close to.

Front light is dual filament..but the socket is a single. Note both filaments are the same 'size'..35W.

Tail is a single..socket is single.

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Post by johnyblaze »

I need maybe 6 miles on the pavement max to get to some great trails. And that's from home or work, or work to home for that matter. So I'll need to find gearing that'll handle 60 for 6 miles and not grenade.

I promise you I will not be using it as a dualsport. My Husky 610 is pretty good in that role.

Thanks for the info on the lights as well.

Oh, BTW - the guy emailed today and the bike is still for sale. Hopefully I'll be able to see it Wed evening or so.
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Post by canyncarvr »

I don't think 'grenade' is the issue.

For me it would be more a metter of being 'comfortable' with that high a spin for that long a time.


You're familiar with the term 'lean roll seizure' and know how to prevent it?

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Post by johnyblaze »

This will be my 1st 2-stroke (motorcycle that is), but I think you're talking about seizing the engine with a prolonged throttle letoff due to the rapid decrease in lubrication. If that's the case, I've heard 2-strokers vary the throttle control periodically and avoid the rapid letoff for engine breaking that us 4-strokers are so fond of. I'm aware there is a degree of contention in the sport as to the existence thereof and it's relative importance.

I am, however, generally the conservative type, so additional details are encouraged. :twisted:
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Post by Julien D »

I'm right there with carvr. I have no problem pulling over 70 on mine for a stretch of a few miles. I was actually pretty shocked at how well I kept up with the 450f's on the paved roads up in hatfield this summer.

As noted, it's generally a bad idea to let off the throttle from such a speed and attempt to coast to a stop. I'll usually clutch it and rev the throttle a bit as I slow down using the brakes..

I really wouldn't expect the actual top speed on the 220 to be much less than the 200, if any. When we say it has less "top end", we'd be referring to the amount of snap the engine has when running in the upper RPM range, or "on the pipe". It doesn't really sound like this would be an issue for you at all. Most the guys I ride with are on 250 2t mx bikes, or 450f's. It's nice to have that little bit extra power up top when I find myself needing to keep up with those guys.

J.
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