Rear Axle Moving

rdsrf · Post by **rdsrf** » 02:15 am Sep 14 2009

How can I keep my rear axle from coming out of adjustment on my 2000 KDX 220?

Comparing to the Kawasaki rear hub parts schemtatic, all related rear axle hardware is accounted for and installed in the correct order, nut has blue loctite and kotter pin installed and the nut is VERY tight.

After the average ride, the rear axle keeps moving to the rear of the bike and subsequently tightening the chain. I'm beginning to worry that I may break a chain or worse.

Any tips or ideas on correcting this?

Thanks in advance for any help/input!!

KarlP · Post by **KarlP** » 06:33 am Sep 14 2009

I've never heard of that happening.

Both sides of the axle move back? The snail adjusters end up away from the pegs they should be pressing against?

Certainly odd.

kawagumby · Post by **kawagumby** » 05:55 pm Sep 14 2009

Yes that is odd, but I bet the problems you have are from an improper chain adjustment and axle tightening procedure.
You might also check to see if it is possible that you have an inferior chain which has stretched intermittently causing misleasing adjustment, which may add to the problems you are having.

MXOldtimer · Post by **MXOldtimer** » 06:03 pm Sep 14 2009

Take a picture of your rear axle/nut/adjuster and post it please.

Just out of curiosity, how badly worn are your sprocket teeth front & rear?

IdahoCharley · Post by **IdahoCharley** » 09:12 pm Sep 14 2009

You sure a bearing spacer is not missing?

Is the internal bearing separator/spacer being crushed from overtightening of the axle? (ultimately resulting in a loose axle)

MXOldtimer · Post by **MXOldtimer** » 09:20 pm Sep 14 2009

IdahoCharley wrote:You sure a bearing spacer is not missing?

Is the internal bearing separator/spacer being crushed from overtightening of the axle? (ultimately resulting in a loose axle)

Hey.............that's good.

rdsrf · Post by **rdsrf** » 09:22 pm Sep 14 2009

KarlP wrote:I've never heard of that happening.

Both sides of the axle move back? The snail adjusters end up away from the pegs they should be pressing against?

Certainly odd.

Yes, both sides move back. The right side (nut/kotter pin side) moves more than the left.

Chain and rear sprocket were on the bike when I bought it and are used but not badly worn as far as I can tell. Chain is an RK o-ring.

I haven't noticed a difference in adjustment since I added a 12T front sprocket about a year and a half ago (I marked and have been using the # 6 spot on the snail adjuster). I used the 3 finger method with the bike under its own weight. When returning the rear axle to the adjuster pegs (three times now) I have had the bike on a stand with the rear wheel off the ground.

When tightening the nut, the snail adjuster tries to pop the selected groove off of the peg. I have to keep tapping it back into position as I tighten the nut. Maybe the snail adjuster is the problem?

My camera is on the blink but I'll see If I can borrow one and post some pics.

rdsrf · Post by **rdsrf** » 09:26 pm Sep 14 2009

IdahoCharley wrote:You sure a bearing spacer is not missing?

Is the internal bearing separator/spacer being crushed from overtightening of the axle? (ultimately resulting in a loose axle)

Both spacers are in place. I'll have to pull the wheel off the check on the condition internal spacer. It was in place when I changed the rear tire recently.

KarlP · Post by **KarlP** » 08:08 am Sep 15 2009

There ought to be a washer under the nut on the right hand side. It helps to keep the snail adjuster from rotating while tightening the nut.
Other than that, pictures might help. Wheel bearings O.K.?

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 10:19 pm Sep 15 2009

RE: 'and the nut is VERY tight'

It shouldn't be 'very' tight. It should be tightened to spec...which is 72ft/lb. Your 'very' and someone else's 'very' may..well...very (sic).

How can the LH side move AWAY from the snail when it's getting yanked on all the time?

Sight down the chain. It's staight?

Correct chain slack is 55-65mm, bike on the side stand (suspension UNloaded)), measured at the end of the swingarm slipper from the swingarm.

This is going to be a good one.

MXOldtimer · Post by **MXOldtimer** » 11:12 pm Sep 15 2009

canyncarvr wrote: How can the LH side move AWAY from the snail when it's getting yanked on all the time?

This is what I don't get.

Post by **Varmint** » 08:17 am Sep 16 2009

canyncarvr wrote:This is going to be a good one.

I agree!

MXOldtimer · Post by **MXOldtimer** » 08:21 am Sep 16 2009

canyncarvr wrote:it's getting yanked on all the time?

Maybe he doesn't yank it enough.

Post by **fuzzy** » 09:28 am Sep 16 2009

Are the snails backwards?

barryadam · Post by **barryadam** » 11:26 am Sep 16 2009

kawagumby · Post by **kawagumby** » 09:51 pm Sep 16 2009

The brake side moves back more than the sprocket side - I wonder if the swingarm bearing is gone on one side or the other, or both - causing a shift of the whole swingarm assembly and weird alignments/loads while accelerating and braking.

I can't believe that a spacer/adjuster issue wouldn't be immediately obvious.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 11:56 pm Sep 16 2009

kawagumby wrote:The brake side moves back more than the sprocket side - I wonder if the swingarm bearing is gone on one side or the other, or both - causing a shift of the whole swingarm assembly and weird alignments/loads while accelerating and braking.

I can't believe that a spacer/adjuster issue wouldn't be immediately obvious.

If the swingarm bearings were 'gone', that wouldn't account for the axle moving, right? Yes, there would be alignment/load issues...but the axle would still have to move.

It would make for an alignment problem to the extent you could see it in the chain. It wouldn't be in-line with the CSS.

So...the axle is moving to the rear. That's only going to happen under a braking situation...and it's going to have to be loose enough to move.

If the snail is moving when the axle is tightened, then at least the washer is missing or on the wrong side of the snail.

At 72ft/lbs, I don't see the axle moving under braking pressure.

So...what allows it to move, even if it's 'TIGHT'?

I dunno. Obviously something is wrong.

There are seals under the axle spacers?

Hope this isn't one of those threads that 'disappears' with no resolution. I want to know what the problem is.

Keep with it, rd. Inquiring minds wanna know!!

kawagumby · Post by **kawagumby** » 09:41 am Sep 17 2009

You're right carvr, I keep trying to make this more complicated than it really is...

Aw heck, just thread the axle another half-inch to make up for whatever is wrong, LOL.
All the torque in the world won't change the fact that the nut has apparently run out of axle threads to travel on.... I say this because when re-reading the thread, it was stated that while tightening the nut the adjuster tends to rotate out of the dimple, which indicates the axle is turning with the nut rather than stretching and properly binding the wheel assembly.
To check this,
...measure the axle unthreaded length, then measure and add up the wheel width (outside bearing faces, make sure inner spacer is tight), seal-spacers, brake bracket, swingarm box widths, brake-side snail thickness and washer. Which total dimension is longer?

PS
check for worn surfaces. The spacers should both be the same length. Does the washer under the nut look like OEM ? (mine is about .088" thick), Does the nut look OEM ?(self-locking type, not castleated)

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 06:27 pm Sep 17 2009

Re: 'I say this because when re-reading the thread...'

Well, now....if I had re-read the thread I'm sure I would'a come up with that too!!!

.
.
.

Uh....no.

Dang. That's good. It didn't occur to me that he could've run out of threads..and the snail moving I relegated to a misplaced washer..that question not having been answered (Where's the washer?)

rd...do measure your unthreaded axle length, I'll compare it to one of the KDX axles I have. Maybe yours just isn't threaded to the correct 'depth'.

Who says this is a KDX wheel to start with? Maybe someone changed sumthin'? Posting measurements as kg suggested would be great. Maybe someone used the wrong spacers?

Obviously something is wrong...so let's find out what!

Re: '...not castleated.'

??Meaning....it can still have baby axle nuts?

MXOldtimer · Post by **MXOldtimer** » 07:32 pm Sep 17 2009

I'm sure if he was running out of threads you'd definitely see the signs on the axle itself. You'd see the threads cutting in and a mushrooming from the nut.

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Rear Axle Moving

Rear Axle Moving