Rear Axle Moving
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Thanks for all of the input everybody!
Sorry I've been away from the site for a couple of days...Got wrapped up in work and some family commitements.
Shot a few pics....Let me know what you guys think. Everything looks to be present and in the correct order. I think I've comeup with a pretty good theory after reading all of the comments, having a second look at the bike and thinking about the last ride I went on.
It shouldn't be 'very' tight. It should be tightened to spec...which is 72ft/lb. Your 'very' and someone else's 'very' may..well...very (sic).
How can the LH side move AWAY from the snail when it's getting yanked on all the time?
We ride a lot of river beds around here....Kinda like this, but normally with a lot less water in them:
The last ride I went on, we rode up and then down one for about an hour and a half. Lots of good sized rocks in there. Other common terrrain is very rutted and root filled. As you can see from the pics of my swingarm and snail adjusters, they are a bit banged up. The kickstand is removed for rides (darn thing gets hung up on everything) so it isn't protecting the left side at all. I thinking the adjusters are getting smacked into rocks and slammed into ruts causing them to be rotated forward and creating a gap between the adjuster and its peg and giving the appearance that the axle had moved rearward. And then as CC mentioned, it's being "yanked" forward by the chain all of the time, pulling the left side forward and making the left side appear to have moved less.
I'm guessing the notches on the adjuster are a bit rounded after being bashed so many times also causing it to move when tightening the nut (yes the washer is on the correct side and I do use another wrench on the axle to hold it while tightening).
Maybe some new snail adjusters will help?
Sorry I've been away from the site for a couple of days...Got wrapped up in work and some family commitements.
Shot a few pics....Let me know what you guys think. Everything looks to be present and in the correct order. I think I've comeup with a pretty good theory after reading all of the comments, having a second look at the bike and thinking about the last ride I went on.
It shouldn't be 'very' tight. It should be tightened to spec...which is 72ft/lb. Your 'very' and someone else's 'very' may..well...very (sic).
How can the LH side move AWAY from the snail when it's getting yanked on all the time?
We ride a lot of river beds around here....Kinda like this, but normally with a lot less water in them:
The last ride I went on, we rode up and then down one for about an hour and a half. Lots of good sized rocks in there. Other common terrrain is very rutted and root filled. As you can see from the pics of my swingarm and snail adjusters, they are a bit banged up. The kickstand is removed for rides (darn thing gets hung up on everything) so it isn't protecting the left side at all. I thinking the adjusters are getting smacked into rocks and slammed into ruts causing them to be rotated forward and creating a gap between the adjuster and its peg and giving the appearance that the axle had moved rearward. And then as CC mentioned, it's being "yanked" forward by the chain all of the time, pulling the left side forward and making the left side appear to have moved less.
I'm guessing the notches on the adjuster are a bit rounded after being bashed so many times also causing it to move when tightening the nut (yes the washer is on the correct side and I do use another wrench on the axle to hold it while tightening).
Maybe some new snail adjusters will help?
- Indawoods
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I would swap them around....
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Yeah, why would you run them with the long tab parts facing down like that so they snag on everything? That right one is bent to hell!Indawoods wrote:I would swap them around....
On my 200 the left one is welded to the axle so you have no choice how to position it. It looks like both sides are separate on your bike though and you have them flipped around the wrong way.
Mike S.
'98 KDX200
'07 KLX250S
'06 KLR650
'93 ST1100
'98 KDX200
'07 KLX250S
'06 KLR650
'93 ST1100
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Doh!!! That makes a heck of a lot of sense.....and is a little embarassing that I hadn't thought of that earlier. They've been like that since I bought the bike and just figured they were in the correct places. Pretty much everything has gotten bent to hell from the trails we ride out here so I guess they just blended in with the rest of the stuff.
Dang, always learning one way or the other.
Thanks again for the help!
Dang, always learning one way or the other.
Thanks again for the help!
- MXOldtimer
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The pic to me look fine with the set-up. I have one more question...does this chain tightening after "each" ride or did it just happen "once" ?
The snails do need to be rotated up but hitting a rock with the snails still wouldn't move a tight axle out of adjustment.
The snails do need to be rotated up but hitting a rock with the snails still wouldn't move a tight axle out of adjustment.
04 KX-250 Hey.....at least it's green and smokes.
06 KDX-200 for off road play. Gone but not forgotten
07 KX-250F SOLD! I thump no more.
06 KDX-200 for off road play. Gone but not forgotten
07 KX-250F SOLD! I thump no more.
- Indawoods
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It is much easier to bump it down on the snail than up.... so it makes perfect sense to me.
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- canyncarvr
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You bet! ..just 'cuz I don't wanna miss the wagon, so I'll jump on it, too. Make 'em straight.Indawoods wrote:I would swap them around....
Re: 'The snails do need to be rotated up but hitting a rock with the snails still wouldn't move a tight axle out of adjustment.'
The first post clearly stated the axle was moving, because the chain is tightening. Smacking the snail tab might force it past the swingarm pin if the snails were worn down to slight nubbins, and there may be enough 'give' to let that happen and NOT move the axle.
But...the axle is moving.
My first thought when I saw the upside down snails was they were indeed getting banged on and moved (the tits look pretty smooth to me..maybe from chain adjustment without loosening the axle enough?), and that space between the snail and pin was misinterpreted as axle movement. DID re-read the first post..the chain IS tightening.
I'm saying MXO makes the point that the axle IS moving, it's not just rotating snails.
How about this: Swap the snails to get the tab out of the way, see if that resolves the issue. IF IT DOES, then DO verify the 'VERY tight' technique.
If that does NOT resolve the issue, add a washer under the axle nut to get you 'more' thread.
The chain alignment shot looks to be quite a bit off to me. But...it's not in the center of the pic, either, so maybe that's a delusion. I'd like to see a pic taken with the chain 90º to the camera. The point being that the two sprockets should be true...and there is no reason for them NOT to be that way. No reason that can't be resolved with adjustment or maintenance anyway. OK OK...that given a bike without a broken/bent frame or swingarm.
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- kawagumby
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And don't feel too bad about the snails being upside-down. The first KDX I bought came from the dealer set up with the tabs down, and it took me quite a while to figure out that wasn't the hot setup .
I wonder though, why the snail isn't welded to the axle like on every KDX I've owned.... that may indicate a replacement axle, if so, be sure it has enough threads to allow proper tightening.
I wonder though, why the snail isn't welded to the axle like on every KDX I've owned.... that may indicate a replacement axle, if so, be sure it has enough threads to allow proper tightening.
1994 KDX200, Beta 200rr, yz125, yz250, kx100 modded for adult, gasgas contact 250.
- canyncarvr
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AHA! Got'cha.kawagumby wrote:And don't feel too bad about the snails being upside-down. The first KDX I bought came from the dealer set up with the tabs down, and it took me quite a while to figure out that wasn't the hot setup .
I wonder though, why the snail isn't welded to the axle like on every KDX I've owned.... that may indicate a replacement axle, if so, be sure it has enough threads to allow proper tightening.
An assumption based on what you know!
(not that I have ever done such a thing!!)
The snails may have been welded on every KDX you have owned, but that isn't OEM. They don't come that way. I'm not saying that no dealer ever does it (don't know why they would...but to except the chance that someone has bought a brand new KDX with the tabs welded), but that's not the way MaKaw does it.
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For my '98 200 the parts fiche (ronayers.com) shows part #41068-1340 as the axle, and it's shown with the adjuster attached. This is under "rear hub". The other adjuster isn't shown. If you go to "swingarm" they show one adjuster by itself, part #33040-1113. They show it going on the left side of the swingarm though. The axle isn't pictured.
If you look up the '00 220, it shows 4168-1341 as the axle without the adjuster welded to it. It also has a small inset with the -1340 part and it notes " '97-'98 ". Under "swingarm" it shows one adjuster on the *right* side, same part number as above. However- it also notes on an inset an adjuster for the *left* side " '99-'01 " (same part number).
So they came both ways
If you look up the '00 220, it shows 4168-1341 as the axle without the adjuster welded to it. It also has a small inset with the -1340 part and it notes " '97-'98 ". Under "swingarm" it shows one adjuster on the *right* side, same part number as above. However- it also notes on an inset an adjuster for the *left* side " '99-'01 " (same part number).
So they came both ways
Mike S.
'98 KDX200
'07 KLX250S
'06 KLR650
'93 ST1100
'98 KDX200
'07 KLX250S
'06 KLR650
'93 ST1100
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The world has become too complicated, now I don't feel I really know my blessed KDX anymore. I will spend the rest of the day reciting mantras.tbirdsp wrote:For my '98 200 the parts fiche (ronayers.com) shows part #41068-1340 as the axle, and it's shown with the adjuster attached. This is under "rear hub". The other adjuster isn't shown. If you go to "swingarm" they show one adjuster by itself, part #33040-1113. They show it going on the left side of the swingarm though. The axle isn't pictured.
If you look up the '00 220, it shows 4168-1341 as the axle without the adjuster welded to it. It also has a small inset with the -1340 part and it notes " '97-'98 ". Under "swingarm" it shows one adjuster on the *right* side, same part number as above. However- it also notes on an inset an adjuster for the *left* side " '99-'01 " (same part number).
So they came both ways
1994 KDX200, Beta 200rr, yz125, yz250, kx100 modded for adult, gasgas contact 250.
- canyncarvr
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Re: 'So they came both ways..
Not on a '00 220 (as you note)...which is the subject 'd-jour.
Wibby's '92 is welded...so, yes..some do, some don't. I didn't bother researching the demarcation of the wuz/wuzn't.
You did and it is a good catch. Thanks for bothering to look it up!
Now...if someone does go to a dealer this afternoon, buys a brandy-new '92 KDX and the snail is NOT welded, that opens up yet another can-o-worms.
How 'bout this: The force (from moving in a forward direction) on the snail that would rotate it in a 'loosening fashion' (toward a smaller number oriented to the swingarm pin and then showing a gap between the snail and the pin would be the direction of force to shove the axle (if it's going to move) to the rear, tightening the chain.
In order for the chain slack to INcrease after the snail was forcibly rotated, the axle would have to be pulled forward by the final drive. That force of course is not going to be the same on both sides, plus, as soon as you jammed on the brake, the RH side would tend to push the axle back. If the axle was loose enough to move, it would be loose enough to get wonky side-to-side from final drive pull and brake 'push'. Not a lot I'm sure...but some.
72ft/lbs isn't a whole lot of squeeze. Somebody needs to take their (to this point) perfectly finely operatingly bike and SMACK the axle with a big drift using a sledge in a rearward direction....see if it moves.
Maybe not. What's tightening the chain in this situation is a 230# bike PLUS rider moving forward slamming up against a big rock. The 'sledge' in that case is a whole lot bigger..and the rock is a whole lot less moveable. Neither mass nor inertia are rightly associated between the two examples.
Altogether now: 'OOOOMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm'
Not on a '00 220 (as you note)...which is the subject 'd-jour.
Wibby's '92 is welded...so, yes..some do, some don't. I didn't bother researching the demarcation of the wuz/wuzn't.
You did and it is a good catch. Thanks for bothering to look it up!
Now...if someone does go to a dealer this afternoon, buys a brandy-new '92 KDX and the snail is NOT welded, that opens up yet another can-o-worms.
Don't feel special thinking you're the only one!I'm missing something here... I agree that the snails are installed on the wrong sides but wouldn't a smack of the tab cause the snail to rotate in a loosening fashion causing the chain slack to increase?
How 'bout this: The force (from moving in a forward direction) on the snail that would rotate it in a 'loosening fashion' (toward a smaller number oriented to the swingarm pin and then showing a gap between the snail and the pin would be the direction of force to shove the axle (if it's going to move) to the rear, tightening the chain.
In order for the chain slack to INcrease after the snail was forcibly rotated, the axle would have to be pulled forward by the final drive. That force of course is not going to be the same on both sides, plus, as soon as you jammed on the brake, the RH side would tend to push the axle back. If the axle was loose enough to move, it would be loose enough to get wonky side-to-side from final drive pull and brake 'push'. Not a lot I'm sure...but some.
72ft/lbs isn't a whole lot of squeeze. Somebody needs to take their (to this point) perfectly finely operatingly bike and SMACK the axle with a big drift using a sledge in a rearward direction....see if it moves.
Maybe not. What's tightening the chain in this situation is a 230# bike PLUS rider moving forward slamming up against a big rock. The 'sledge' in that case is a whole lot bigger..and the rock is a whole lot less moveable. Neither mass nor inertia are rightly associated between the two examples.
Altogether now: 'OOOOMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm'
Consider the source
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Didn't have anything else to do, as I'm waiting for the RTV on my exhaust to curecanyncarvr wrote:Re: 'So they came both ways..
Not on a '00 220 (as you note)...which is the subject 'd-jour.
Wibby's '92 is welded...so, yes..some do, some don't. I didn't bother researching the demarcation of the wuz/wuzn't.
You did and it is a good catch. Thanks for bothering to look it up!
Mike S.
'98 KDX200
'07 KLX250S
'06 KLR650
'93 ST1100
'98 KDX200
'07 KLX250S
'06 KLR650
'93 ST1100
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Thanks again for everyone's input.
Seems there could be a variety of reasons for the axle moving and a lot of variables thrown in on the average trail ride (yup, bike and rider also go backwards into imobile objects kinda often ).
To answer a few questions: This was about the third time I had to re-adjust the axle. The chain looking tighter than normal caught my attention this time....Couldn't comment on the other times other than the gap between the snails and the pegs.
So I'm gonna flip them around and tighten the nut to specs with the torque wrench and see what happens. If it still moves I'll try some new snails and an extra washer like CC suggested.
Thanks again!
Seems there could be a variety of reasons for the axle moving and a lot of variables thrown in on the average trail ride (yup, bike and rider also go backwards into imobile objects kinda often ).
To answer a few questions: This was about the third time I had to re-adjust the axle. The chain looking tighter than normal caught my attention this time....Couldn't comment on the other times other than the gap between the snails and the pegs.
So I'm gonna flip them around and tighten the nut to specs with the torque wrench and see what happens. If it still moves I'll try some new snails and an extra washer like CC suggested.
Thanks again!
- canyncarvr
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If you don't let us know how this comes out, it's going to be REAL expensive (for you) when some of us to have to come hunt you down in Howareya to get an update.
Don't MAKE us do it!!
Don't MAKE us do it!!
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Got the snails flipped around and axle nut torqued to spec (well, as close as you can get with one of those Craftsman cheap pointer type torque wrenches).
Went for about a 4 hour ride with plenty of rocks, large logs and a few river crossings. The axle seems to have stayed put for now....Keeping my fingers crossed.
Thanks again for the help!
Went for about a 4 hour ride with plenty of rocks, large logs and a few river crossings. The axle seems to have stayed put for now....Keeping my fingers crossed.
Thanks again for the help!