220 jetting question

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jbowens2401
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220 jetting question

Post by jbowens2401 »

I have a 2005 220 with the stock 33mm carb. I've been reading everything I possible can about where to start on my jetting. The jetting is currently stock: 42 PJ, 145 MJ, and stock needle in the 3rd position. The mods I have are: FMF rev pipe w/ stock silencer, twin air filter, airbox lid removed, boysen power reeds, and I run amsoil intercepter at 40:1. I ride harescrambles which consist of tight trails, wide open fire roads, and hill climbs. My elevation is sea level to about 1,000 ft and temp ranges from 50-90 degrees F. After reading about all of the different needles, I think the CEL will fit me best. So here is what I'm thinking for a starting point on the jetting: 142 MJ, 40 PJ, and CEL needle 3rd clip position. What do you guys think about this as a starting point? After I get a good starting point, I will buy a handful of plugs and start chopping. Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance for your feedback.

John
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Post by Varmint »

Sounds like a good starting point, maybe a little small on the MJ. I installed the CEL yesterday and Wow. You feel the needle right after 1/4 throttle, very nice hit. Cheeks still hurt from smiling!
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Post by jbowens2401 »

Sweet...thanks for the feedback. Would you start out with a 145 MJ. Which clip position are you using with the CEL needle?
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Post by kevfort19 »

i think it's a good starting point... me i have a 220 with a woods pipe, and a powercore 2 silencer, i ave a James Dean jetting Needle for the 200 ans 220 and my jetting is PJ 40, 2rd clip, MJ 142, i'm at 650 to 2000ft altitude and the same temperature of you.
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Post by canyncarvr »

The FmF torque/woods pipe takes a smaller jet setup than the same bike with a rev/desert pipe.

It's always a good idea to start rich and work down.

Starting lean with the intention of working up may end up in a short tuning session..followed by a top-end replacement.

Have fun!!

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Post by Varmint »

>|<>QBB<
jbowens2401 wrote:Sweet...thanks for the feedback. Would you start out with a 145 MJ. Which clip position are you using with the CEL needle?
I'm on a 200 with fmf gnarly woods and TCII silencer, same temps and alts and I'm running 152,42,CEL, 2nd clip, AS at 1.75 out. Best setup so far but I'm still testing and learning thanks to this site.
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Post by jbowens2401 »

Thank you all for the feedback. CC, I will take your advise and start out with a 145 MJ, 42 PJ, and CEL 3rd clip position. Any additional advise is welcome.

Thanks again,

John
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Post by canyncarvr »

The 142 main might be just fine. I'm not saying I know it isn't.

I know no such thing.


Re-jetting a bike is a process having to do with some trial and error. My choice would be to 'error' on the side of caution to avoid some trials...and tribulation!

Even if it's your bike! :wink:

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Post by jbowens2401 »

Understood...will the CEL needle contribute to a richer or leaner mixture versus the stock needle? Also, could running a pilot jet that is one size too small lead to engine failure?
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Post by Indawoods »

Yes and no... the taper on the needle determines when it is running rich or lean depending on it's position.

Mark the throttle grip at 1/4 and 3/4

openings. Ride the bike between these two marks. If the bike bogs for a second before responding to throttle, lower the clip (raising the needle) a

notch at a time until the engine picks up smoothly. If the bike sputters or sounds rough when giving it throttle, raise the clip (lowering the needle)

until it runs cleanly. There isn't really any way to test the needle other than by feel, but it's usually quite obvious when it's right or wrong.

Failure?

Probably not but that's why you always start rich....
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Post by jbowens2401 »

Thanks, your jetting tutorial has already been printed out and will come in handy this weekend when I start tuning the carb. Do you think the 145/42/3rd clip position CEL needle setup will be rich enough to start with?
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Post by firffighter »

As you know I run my 220 pretty lean at 140 main and 38 pilot. I did a lot of research on jetting 220's and I believe it was Jed who was running these jetting specs on his 220 with good results.

I just did a 50 mile ride yesterday and the jetting is pretty spot on.

I have also found that with the KDX, there are several other factors that affect performance. A clean KIPS valve and a clean silencer are key to getting the bike to run clean and crisp. Even when jetting is spot on, you wont get premium performance or crisp throttle response unless those are clean.

I have noticed over the past 5 years that many folks neglect these 2 items and then cant get their KDX to run correctly and continue to struggle with their jetting thinking that is the key.

Just some observations. Hope this helps.
'
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Post by jbowens2401 »

firfighter,

thanks for the feedback, I just put in a weisco top end and throughly cleaned the KIPS valve, so I should be good to go there. I'm running the stock silencer and was wondering if there is any way to clean it. I know about taking out the bottom bolt...is this the best/only way to clean it?

I have a 142/40/ stock needle 2nd clip position in there right now, but I have yet to install the rev pipe and CEL needle (I will be doing both this weekend at the family farm, so I have room for some chopping) With this jetting setup, I fouled a plug while riding behind my daughter (slow riding as she is only 4 and rides a CRF 50), and I have spooge dripping from the silencer onto my swingarm at a record pace. At the time, I was running 40:1 bel ray synthetic power valve formula. My brother says it's crap, and he bought me a bottle of amsoil interceptor. So this weekend I will be draining the tank and switching over to 40:1 amsoil interceptor, adding the rev pipe, and getting my jetting as close to perfect as possible.

One last question, with boysen power reeds in place do they require a step leaner jetting? CC said the rev pipe requires a step richer jetting vs. the woods pipe on the same bike, and I was just wondering if the to would counter act one another...just a thought.

Thanks again for all of the helpful feedback,

John
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Post by KarlP »

I ran 140/38 on my 220 with stock reeds and the airbox lid cut open. I thought it was just right!

It may not be for you, though.
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Post by jbowens2401 »

KarlP,

Thanks for the feedback. What pipe/silencer setup were you running. I see your in alabama. I went to school in huntsville and lived there for about 7 years.
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Post by jbowens2401 »

CC,

"The FmF torque/woods pipe takes a smaller jet setup than the same bike with a rev/desert pipe."

Would you think the jet needle needs to be set richer as well?

Thanks,

John
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Post by canyncarvr »

>|<>QBB<
jbowens2401 wrote:CC,

"The FmF torque/woods pipe takes a smaller jet setup than the same bike with a rev/desert pipe."

Would you think the jet needle needs to be set richer as well?

Thanks,

John
At the time I was fussing with it, the difference between a bike (mine) that worked well and one that didn't between the two pipes was pilot and main jet selection. I used to swap pipes back and forth regularly..and changed the two jets at the same time. That's not to say no improvement could be had with a needle change. I didn't do that. I think of needles as more a 'personality' choice..as long as you have a half-fast correct needle in the first place. Example: A CEK/DEK needle choice for my bike both work well. The power delivery from the two is considerably different.

It's the stock needle that is commonly considered to be problematic..and it's tough to get the entire throttle range to be satisfactory because the needle is goofy to start with. Years back, JD made this observation about the OEM (and proprietary) needles in the KDX:
JD wrote: ...they put a lean straight diameter (2.725, or 2.735) , a lean taper (1.25 degrees) , and a lean clip position (L1=39.95) and then came up with 1172N or 1173N. The higher taper start is throwing you guys off track by being lean then rich then lean in an extreme and (to date) unexplained way.

A WOT plug chop approach will tell you what main jet your bike needs. Tuning throttle response via the air screw will tell you what pilot jet you need. After you have made your jet selections..change the needle clip to find the power delivery curve that suits you. That part of a jetting sequence is more preference than it is right/wrong. Again...as long as the needle(s) you are trying are in the ballpark. There was a time an AEN needle was somehow thought to be worth a shot in modified carbs on the KDX. There is nothing you could do with the screw-in jets to make the bike work even marginally well with that needle.

It's been a long time since I used a #6 throttle valve (slide) in an OEM carb. Can't say the exact why and wherefores of it...but I recall preferring the #6 over the OEM #5 slide.

Frankly..there isn't a lot to be learned from a 'What jets do you run?' question. It might get you in the ballpark..but a jet-set that works perfectly for rider 'A' may not work well for you at all...because riding terrain, riding style, and the individual bikes are going to be too different.

That's why being familiar with the jetting process is what works. It's something you just have to do yourself to get it right.

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Post by jbowens2401 »

Thanks CC, I really appreciate the feedback. I just swapped over from the 4 stroke world (crf250x), and I want to learn as much about two stroke jetting as possible before I dive in. I printed off Indawoods jetting guide, bought 5 plugs (BR8ES), bought numerous main and pilot jets, and got a CEL and DEL needle. I think I'll be in good shape Saturday when I start the process, and I will post my results on Monday for everyone to see.

Also, I got your PM but it would not let me respond. It said the administrator had blocked me from sending PM's. I just got on this great site, and I'm already an outlaw!

Thanks for the help,

John
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update

Post by jbowens2401 »

I didn't get a chance to ride this weekend (kids sports took over), but I will get to ride next weekend and provide what jetting results worked for me.
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Post by tbirdsp »

>|<>QBB<
firffighter wrote: I have also found that with the KDX, there are several other factors that affect performance. A clean KIPS valve and a clean silencer are key to getting the bike to run clean and crisp. Even when jetting is spot on, you wont get premium performance or crisp throttle response unless those are clean.

I have noticed over the past 5 years that many folks neglect these 2 items and then cant get their KDX to run correctly and continue to struggle with their jetting thinking that is the key.

Just some observations. Hope this helps.
Thread jack - what is the best way to clean the stock silencer? Does the method in the manual really work?

Can you clean the KIPS at all without major disassembly?
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