KDXRIDER.NET

Hi Guys,
I hope I am not opening a can of worms. I am new to KDX's. I ride a KTM200 and am considering building myself a hybrid KX/KDX. I would like to know which engine is best? I know I should try and go with the latest KX frame etc, but which engine is best in terms of performance. I ride technical terrain, rocks, roots, hillclimbs etc, the tighter the better - we like to push instead of ride .... But I ride harescrambles as well so a little speed is never a bad thing!
So, I know the 220 motor is more of a lugger so I suppose that would be the answer? But would it not be better to do the 200 to 225 conversion? So, any advice here? I am wanting to build this bike as an alternative to a KTM200 (new one) and am therefore wanting to build "the perfect bike" if possible (Ive seen them in the hybrid section ).
Any advice would be appreciated. Cheers

Are you mad don't bother with the KDX it will never be as good as the KTM. Trail bike mag in the UK did a review in 2002 with the KTM200 Gas Gas 200 and the KDX 220.
As they pointed out the KDX was a old bike then in 2002 ( but good ) it will never compeat with a newer bike it just too old school.
I stand back and wait for the fall out on this one.
I could scan the review in and email it you if you would like.

I want to know... how so?

Indawoods wrote:I want to know... how so?

want to know about what? The KTM or the KDX being old tec?

Old tech, new tech - which is best? My Dell with 2.5 gig intel dual processor, sata hd, XP pro, and 4 gigs of ram is slower than my homebuilt athlon 750, with 700+ megs of ram running windows 98. I use the dell as a backup. Progress? yep, if you need the features of XP. I don't.

Now dirtbikes aren't that different IMO, it depends on what you use them for. A KTM 200 won't keep up with my modded KDX220 in the kind of terrain I ride, which is lousy traction, single track with tons of zero to 10 MPH short nasty hill climbs, ruts, etc. The KTM will pull away in more open terrain and handles much better and is more stable in that kind of situation. I have found that the "old school" frame and seat design of the KDX is superior for slow rough trail riding. It is easier to ride when you are forced to sit, easier to dab and walk it over nasty stuff while on the bike when you have to.

I've owned and ridden scores of dirt bikes, including the latest 4 stroke offerings, and found the 220 engine/tranny combo to be my favorite for nasty trail riding. I don't tire easily on the 220 and love dusting younger guys on their latest models. If you ride nasty stuff, it won't let you down - and putting that engine in a later model frame would make for a very versatile bike IMO - if that's what you want.

PS. Bike magazine reviews don't recessarily reflect the type of use each of us will put a bike to. I've found many of the reviewers have a main-stream rider perspective, which is cool, but might not be representative of many of the experienced riders you would find participating in a forum like this.

I've let both a KTM 220 rider and a GasGas 200 rider ride my hybrid (220 motor in a CR chassis)

Both liked my motor better than thiers. NOT the bike, the motor. Bike set up is too personal.

Both commented that the 220 motor had much nicer low end and a smoother transition onto the pipe. Both also commented that it had less on the pipe, but that was O.K., still plenty.

The OP is talking about a hybrid. The chassis is more important than the motor anyway, IMO.

If you are oblivious to the fact that bike magazines are there to sell the newest thing out there and push new new new... then I guess you have been taken in by the hype.

I don't want to get into a KDX VS other debate on a KDX website, but....

The KDX chassis is what it is. Pretty effective in most situations. There are other chassis that are better, no doubt about it.

I sometimes miss being able to just plunk around in comfort. Can't do that so comfortably on my current bike.

I am faster on my current bike, there is no doubt about it.

I also got passed quite handily by a guy on a KDX in a recent race.

Certainely a KX/KDX hybrid would be a much more real-world mag test vs the new euro bikes. The last real comparison that could be done would be a 95 KDX vs 95 euro bikes. The euro bikes advanced, the KDX didn't.

The 89-94 200 motor is known to be a better stump puller than the 95-up 200's, and would be what I'd go after if building a hybrid. They do have a tendancy to burn up the power valve gears though. Are you going to race, and if so, is a 200 class desired? That would oust the 220. 95-up 200 is a great motor, and the 220 is good too....More of a stump puller stock, but anemic up top stock. Both can be modded to pull fabulous everywhere. The 225 conversion probably makeing the most power everywhere due to 'good' porting in the end, but these have been reported to need race gas, or at least some, in the mix.

I will say that the next bike I buy will probably be another KDX, just a newer year model than my 2000 was. I did love that bike and had ALOT of fun riding it.

Something to think about


Carvr rides an "H" series 200

I ride an "E" series 200

Carvr weighs somewhere around 185 lbs

I weigh 100 pounds more

I can go, anywhere he can!

Jonooffler wrote:Are you mad don't bother with the KDX it will never be as good as the KTM. Trail bike mag in the UK did a review in 2002 with the KTM200 Gas Gas 200 and the KDX 220.
As they pointed out the KDX was a old bike then in 2002 ( but good ) it will never compeat with a newer bike it just too old school.
I stand back and wait for the fall out on this one.
I could scan the review in and email it you if you would like.

The KTM200's and 300's are fine bikes. I have several riding buddies who ride them. I never had a problem keeping up with them on my almost bone stock KDX. Sometimes I woul outrun them and sometimes the would outrun me. Now that I am on my hybrid things haven't changed. Sometimes I beat them and sometimes they beat me. I don't think I would be any faster if I bought a 2009 KTM. Knowing that, I am way ahead on the KDX because it is cheaper to buy, cheaper to repair and needs to be repaired less often. Some of my friends have frequently tried to get me to buy a KTM because they for some reason feel that I am limiting myself or not riding at my potential speed because I am on a KDX and not on a KTM. When I try to explain to them that I have exactly the bike I want to have they just don't understand.

There are two more dirt bikes that I would like to add to my fleet some day, though. One is a KX500 in a KX250F frame and the other is a nice KDX. I would put a pipe on it and put a KX front end on it and leave it alone. I think the KDX with that setup is a perfect, problem free trail bike IMHO.

Mr. Wibbens wrote:Something to think about


Carvr rides an "H" series 200

I ride an "E" series 200

Carvr weighs somewhere around 185 lbs

I weigh 100 pounds more

I can go, anywhere he can!

What happens when you switch bikes?

Its been years since I rode Carvr's

"If you ride nasty stuff, it won't let you down - and putting that engine in a later model frame would make for a very versatile bike IMO - if that's what you want."

Sweet! Thats what I want to hear. Reliable and versatile bike!!!

"Both liked my motor better than thiers. NOT the bike, the motor. Bike set up is too personal. Both commented that the 220 motor had much nicer low end and a smoother transition onto the pipe. Both also commented that it had less on the pipe, but that was O.K., still plenty."
Nothing wrong with smooth controllable power - I think its one of the reasons I would like a KDX, they can be made controllable (which is what I like) or with the right mods they can probably be quite wicked too.

"The OP is talking about a hybrid. The chassis is more important than the motor anyway, IMO." Yup, I am.



"The 89-94 200 motor is known to be a better stump puller than the 95-up 200's, and would be what I'd go after if building a hybrid. They do have a tendancy to burn up the power valve gears though. Are you going to race, and if so, is a 200 class desired? That would oust the 220. 95-up 200 is a great motor, and the 220 is good too....More of a stump puller stock, but anemic up top stock. Both can be modded to pull fabulous everywhere. The 225 conversion probably makeing the most power everywhere due to 'good' porting in the end, but these have been reported to need race gas, or at least some, in the mix"
I am planning to race the bike. The 200 class is one of the biggest classes we have here. I am not too phased though - more of a social racer and most of my mates ride 250's or 300's anyway. I must admit that it would probably be nice to keep the 200 though....
So you are saying that the 89-94 is good but maybe not so reliable due to the PV gears? The later 200 is good but not as much of a low end motor? Does it gain at the top end? How much does it differ from the older engine in terms of performance? Maybe I should go with either 200 and then mod as much as possible - if required I will have to import a jug and head from the US (sorry - didnt mention I am in South Africa).

Guys, Thanks for all the replies - although they differ. I am overwhelmed by everyone's interest and willindness to help (and flame other guys ) JK JK JK.

Cheers, will keep you informed about any purchases. Oh, lastly - I saw a post by another saffer asking for specs on head mods etc from RB. I wont do that, and I agree 110% with that. I will probably be doing my own engine build (another steep learning curve but should be good) and will ask for help with that probably. I might ask also if anyone knows of a carb and a head available in the US that I can buy and get sent to RB and get him to ship here - but that may come later. Thanks again!

I should say when the 89-94 PV gears fail, it's after about 10k miles...LOL, but this is one known weak spot. If trying to aquire a 200 motor I'd honestly take whatever I could find cheapest....w/ an emphasis on trying to find an 89-94 one....which should be cheaper regardless.

If trying to aquire a 200 motor I'd honestly take whatever I could find cheapest....w/ an emphasis on trying to find an 89-94 one....which should be cheaper regardless.[/quote]


Why 89-94 over a newer engine ??

Anyone do a KDX250 hybrid? I really want to with mine, but just cant stand the thought of gutting a perfectly good bike....... Wish I could find a motor on e-bay...

TWMOODY wrote:If trying to aquire a 200 motor I'd honestly take whatever I could find cheapest....w/ an emphasis on trying to find an 89-94 one....which should be cheaper regardless.

Why 89-94 over a newer engine ??[/quote]

Did you not read anything on this thread?

Well, I have to chime in here having owned most of the bikes that are being discussed here: 2 KTM 200exc's, 1 KTM 250mxc, 3 KDX's ('92 200, '98 220, and current '02 220).

When TRAIL riding, the difference between these bikes is quite minimal with prefernces given to each depending on power delivery, suspension, quick turning, light weight, layout, comfort, etc., etc.

But, and this is a big BUT, when you are RACING, the KTM's pull away from the KDX's.

When you are doing a 2-3 hr. fast paced race, the suspension, hydraulic clutch, better ergos, quick throttle response and top notch brakes really shine.

Now, I have raced my KDX 220 in 3 harescrambles and it does fine, but I am riding as a intermediate "B" rider with no intensions of winning or pushing it too much.

In comparison, I have ridden the KTM's in the same races and the more race oriented KTM is just plain better when you start pushing the pace.

Now, my current KDX has '02 KX125 front end w/ revalved forks by Racetech for woods and I have the typical performance mods like FMF pipe, reeds, RB, etc. I also have updated the ergos with IMS wide pegs, tall gripper seat, taller bars, etc. This puts the KDX in the ballpark with the KTM, but it still cant match them when again, things get to race pace.

I have no intention of riding that fast anymore and for me the KDX fits perfect for the few races I do and the mostly trail riding that is what it was built for. The KDX is a more versitile ride IMO and if you are riding really tight, steep terrain, it is hard to find a better bike.