Banshee motors?

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KarlP
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Banshee motors?

Post by KarlP »

I haven't looked into this too much, thought I'd ask first.

Is the 200 cc Banshee quad motor air cooled? Is it possible that it would fit in a modern YZ125 frame?
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Post by MXOldtimer »

WHY?
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Post by KarlP »

Sigh.....
Too much free time?

I ran an Enduro this weekend. It was absolutely brutal. It was long, very tight, very hot. I did just fine on my KDX powered CR, finishing second in the old guys class.

On my row was a young fella on a YZ125. He was clueless and took off like a shot. The third time I came by and found him dragging his bike out of the bushes I suggested he slow down a bit. I told him to go ahead but keep me in earshot. That YZ appeared light and nimble and looked like it handled wonderfully. It also looked like a pain in the butt to ride. In the really tight stuff it was obviously ON or OFF, motor wise. I finally had to tell him good luck and took off.

The big 4ST's had a really tough time of it, IMO. The smell of antifreeze and oil cooking was everywhere.

I think I'd like to build an air cooled small bore two stroke into a modern chassis.
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Re: Banshee motors?

Post by canyncarvr »

>|<>QBB<
KarlP wrote:I haven't looked into this too much, thought I'd ask first.

Is the 200 cc Banshee quad motor air cooled? Is it possible that it would fit in a modern YZ125 frame?
:hmm:

Uh....what?

There is no 200cc Banshee quad motor. The Banshee is (was) 350cc.

You are thinking of a Blaster? It is 200cc. It is an air-cooled, oil-injected 2T.

Re: 'Is it possible?'

Sure. I have a picture of a roots blown rat motor in a wheelbarrow. I suppose if that is 'possilble'...I suppose that anyone out there that came up with the whacky idea of putting a KDX motor in a CR frame could figure it out! :wink:

But...not everything 200 is created equal. Part of such a deal that would be imperative imo is for you to RIDE a Blaster.

I have. Only one, and I can't say what state of tune/condition that machine was in. It didn't have a whole lot of 'go', though. Pretty 'light-switchy'. That particular machine did seize later in the day for unknown reasons, maybe due to something that also lent itself to the not-that-wonderful performance when I rode it? I dunno. That was in the sand, and that's hard on machines. Considering that it was turning 20" of tire in that sand... with 185# sitting on it...is probably not an indication of what it would do with a 7sq.in. contact patch of a bike tire.

On the YZ...I rode/rode with one'a those just last weekend. It needed some work to be worth a hoot in the woods. Talk about 'light-switch'...oh yeah! To be fair, it was a 'new to you' bike...hadn't been tweaked on at all. It was in sore need of a clutch, carb tune...and 4" of free sag (on purpose) to make the bike fit the rider is the wrong way to go. Still...the kid riding it was fun to watch. He is GOOD! All the right lines (99% of the time), not afraid to twist that RH! Watched him ride a CR250 on one loop. Dang..this kid has motorcycles in his blood.

...and he's been riding for about four months.

The point of the story: I'd guess the kid on the YZ you drug out of the weeds might have had some learning to do.

Ask Mike (in Colorado) about YZs. His kid has one.

Actually....as hard as you found the run to be...my completely uneducated WAG is that you had the good ride for the course.

I don't see a 200 air-cooled Blaster motor to be in the cards as an advantage/step-up from a KDX 200. It IS a six-speed. That's good.

The ONE thing that is a pain on the KDX is cooling...or lack of it. Ride hard, ride hot...and the KDX is going to lose coolant, performance will go downhill. Even if YOU'RE going UPhill! :wink:

Oh...for all of 'ya that want to chime in to say, 'MY bike NEVER loses coolant or gets hot!'...I guarantee you're missing the 'hard/hot' part above.

I have no idea whether a Blaster motor would do better in that regard or not. Just because it's not puking coolant, steaming and hissing doesn't mean it's NOT 1/2 a hair away from ending its life as you know it.

The 'new' 350 Raptor (Warrior) isn't a screamer. A stump-puller maybe...but not a screamer. Still..with 175% larger motor, either it should do better...OR the Blaster (white) can move!

[youtube][/youtube]

If you look into one...look at one with a pipe on it. The pipe routes REAL high. Don't know how well it would fit into a bike frame.

But..that's for YOU to figure out!!!

DO IT!!! I wanna see how it turns out!! :grin:

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Post by fuzzy »

Blaster motor is OK. Simple little bugger. No power valve, and air cooled of course. Porting seems to be 'mid.' People get decent power out of them modding for higher RPM power, and sacrificing low...No good for woods. Stock makes less power than KDX surely do to lack of PV, but they seem to grunt OK. Keep in mind that internal trans gearing is for tiny 4-wheeler tire. Air cooled hybrid? I'd go w/ a latest model A/C KDX motor in xyz frame. The later ones are nicacil and all. I should've bought this one I saw on ebay that looked BRAND NEW for $250. Was interested in it for my kart.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Keep in mind that internal trans gearing is for tiny 4-wheeler tire.
Excellent point! Didn't even occur to me.


Ha! Chain a Blaster to an 18" tire and I'll bet'cha it wouldn't 'go' for diddle!

**edit**

..went looking. Thought a Blaster sprocket would be around 36T..but I see them listed as 40T. So...a bit of math says you would need something along the line of a 70/13 sprocket set to run about the same ratio the quad has.

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Post by KarlP »

"Actually....as hard as you found the run to be...my completely uneducated WAG is that you had the good ride for the course."

I think I had the PERFECT ride for the course, didn't miss a lick. Now, I was pretty well whupped.

I came through the last check, rolled up to the edge of the road, knew where we had parked, looked at our vehicles, and still wasn't sure what to do.

It doesn't get any better than that :supz:

An A/C KDX motor is not a bad thought.

The gearing in the Blaster motor is a bit of a big problem.

What brought all this to mind was following a guy on a highly modified CRF230 (Dwight Rudder) through those tights. HP is not needed. Dwight is big into the A/C XR style motors. I prefer a two stroke.

Seems to me a buddy of mine had a 175cc A/C Kawasaki. KX? KDX? I don't recall. Late '80's I suppose.

Looking for simple, low flat power in a good chassis.
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Post by canyncarvr »

>|<>QBB<
KarlP wrote: Looking for simple, low flat power in a good chassis.
How 'bout a KDX motor in a CR frame?

Re: 'I came through the last check, rolled up to the edge of the road, knew where we had parked, looked at our vehicles, and still wasn't sure what to do.'

:lol:


I can relate to that......but, it doesn't take a hard HS to get me there!

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Post by Colorado Mike »

I had an '81 KDX 175 . I think a year or two after that they went to 200cc and never went lower. That bike was air cooled and very dependable. The only thing I didn't like was the idiotic rear suspension links, and the horrible drum brakes. The suspension travel was pretty short too, about 9" but the low seat height would have some advantages in tough terrain. I seem to remember the chain guide was a little goofy too. It was also very quiet. It had what looked like a WWII Jap torpedo for a silencer.
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Post by KarlP »

Maybe that's the motor I'm looking for....

It does not have to have more power than the KDX, you know. I'm not constantly banging off the throttle stop anyway.

Anything currently in production that is similar?
A/C, 175-250 cc, 2 stroke
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Post by fuzzy »

Pretty much evreything is water cooled these days. Still some fan cooled snowmobile engines that rock the house, but are in the 440cc range...and are intended to be cooled with 'snow quality' air...LOL. h2o cooling is just plain superior, and dead reliable for the most part these days. overheat a h2o motor? It pukes, and you know. Overheat an AC motor, it might just sieze before you realize it. Fuel requirements (jetting) changes based off cyl/head temp....h2o cooling keeps that mosly a constant.

Keep your eye on ebay. I was looking for a late-model (86-88) AC KDX motor, and found several. One was MINT. This was probably the best and last AC enduro motor. Again, for me this was going to go on a kart to simplfy things as it's currently air cooled (100cc), and this thing makes NO POWER under 9,000 rpm so that' snot a very good choice, even if you built a twin...LOL. Also, keep in mind that the crankcase/box might be close to identical to the h2o motor, but the jug is BIGGER. Still have PV inside, and had BIG FINS on it instead of tiny water jackets... :partyman:
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Post by KarlP »

Yeah, I may have to back off the A/C part of the spec.

The KDX motor is hard to beat for the performance charecteristics I want.

An XR motor can be made pretty good, I guess, but I like my two strokes.

I suppose an Eric Gore 144 cc YZ or KX would be pretty close, but where is the fun in that? Might as well buy a KTM/GG 200.
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Post by MXOldtimer »

Why air cooled?????

Heat fluctuation in A/C engines makes them jetting nightmares. W/C still fluctuate but maintain a more even temp help'n with the jetting/performance.

I really don't get the A/C thing....enlighten me.
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Post by canyncarvr »

>|<>QBB<
MXOldtimer wrote:Why air cooled?????



I really don't get the A/C thing....enlighten me.
Karl can answer for hisself...but my $.02.....

Because A/C is more forgiving. An air-cooled engine is generally put together more loosely because it's air cooled..because the heat fluctuation is greater than in a water-cooled motor. You don't have the hissy-spittin' fits that tell you your W/C motor is in trouble..but that means you don't sweat that tell-tale, either...'cuz it doesn't happen in an A/C motor.

Get an A/C motor too hot...run it fast-n-easy..you're good.

Get a W/C motor too hot...then what? It's not 'repairable' by any change of style/riding you can do. You must stop..cool it off...open it up...put in more fluid...that fluid may be what's supposed to be in there (what WAS in there) or it may not. It's something you need to carry..and if it's water, that means less for you to refill YOUR personal radiator. ..meaning to drink.

If the situation gets two bikes too hot..the A/C loses some power...gets through it..gets cooled off. The W/C? It pukes/hisses/spits...and if you don't FIX it...you're DEAD.

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Post by KarlP »

A/C is also simpler. No radiators, no pumps, no hoses.

I haven't busted a radiator yet but it could certainly happen easily enough.

I'm not necessarily looking for a high performance motor. I'm looking for simple, tractable, sufficient power.

When I make a list of ALL air cooled two strokes that are readily available and come kind of close to the performance I'd like I think it is down to the KE175 motor......... :blink:
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: 'A/C is also simpler. No radiators, no pumps, no hoses.'

Oops. I was headed that way..got interrupted.

Re: 'I haven't busted a radiator yet but it could certainly happen easily enough.'

I haven't broke a rad myself, but have lost a hose. 'Lost' meaning leaning the bike close enough to the ground on an uphill switch-back (I actually stayed on it..I thought that was cool!) to snag a hose on a rock.

I was lucky enough to be able to fix it (was miles from nowhere).


I'm not arguing the superiority of one over the other. There are advantages to water cooling, of course. And just as certainly, there are advantages to air cooling.

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Post by KarlP »

'08 KTM200xc
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KX100 for the boy
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