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In the H-series why does it seem everyone likes the 200 more then the 220? I was thinking on starting to collect the parts to up the CCs to 220 my next top end build but now I am unsure. Is there a big bore kit out there?

I think Eric Gorr offered a 225 set up. The reason a lot of people like the 200 is more power at high revs. The 220 is ported for high torque at low rpm, and has a restrictive carb to match. Going to the RB carb and head mods and an FMF rev pipe help the 220 have a broader powerband, but it's still no screamer. Porting it could make a big difference, but I never messed with that.

Huh?

Everybody knows the 220 is the best....

Nah....

http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=411

Generally, the 200 can be made to pull beyond satisfactory levels in the low-end while ripping up top, which is harder for the 220 to accomplish. RB's stuff makes it easier for both to accomplish, regardless. Certain classes (especially in woods racing) have 200cc max, too.

Word has it by people who truely understand porting that the 220 porting isn't very good, or as good as it 'could' be. So, the supposed ultimate is the 225 made out of a 200cc stock jug...so the porting can be altered 'better' sorta combining the best of both worlds. I'm guessing a 220 could be built also, out of a 200, and the +5cc's are 'free' in this case.

Re: 'Word has it by people who truely understand porting that the 220 porting isn't very good, or as good as it 'could' be.'

E. Gorr has said that.

Re: 'I was thinking on starting to collect the parts...'

Then 'collect' another 200 cylinder, send it to EG to make it a 225.

As fuzzy said, you are better off starting with a 200 because of the inherent limitations (port design) of the 220.

That's not my idea. That came from E. Gorr, too.

Oh..'..is there a big bore kit out there...'

'Kit' meaning something you do to modify your existing setup? No. Any 'kit' would include a different cylinder.

2 different motor characteristics and 1 is no better than the other.

After owning an modding both, I think it just depends on what type of terrain you ride and what style of rider you are (lug vs. rev).

I currently own the 220 with a few performance mods. I ride a lot of tight, technical terrain where 3rd gear is a luxury, so the 220 works for me. Less clutch work and amazing ability to lug up and over obstacles are what make this motor shine.

If I were riding more open terrain, then the 200 would be more "fun" because it revs quicker and higher than the 220.

That being said, a 220 with a rev pipe and RB carb/head mod is a very potent motor that is right up there with the KTM200 and KTM250 I owned.

You could get the 200 be right up there as well with the RB mods, torque pipe. You would have to add a FWW IMO to get the 200 to lug as well as the 220 IMO.

A high revving 200 for wide open terrain is a waste, since there are lots of lighter more powerful, better suspended bikes that will do the job better. The 220 is better suited for tight, demanding terrain and is a true man's bike (unlike the 200 which is favored by riding moms and young people wearing orthodontic apparatus). I owned both at the same time, and both were modified with fmf pipes and aftermarket reeds. Both were tuned well. I sold the 200 after about a year of farting around with tuning, swapping pipes, etc. I began to feel inadequate on it, even though I removed the little blue fender tool kit and the stock hand guards...I just couldn't get the right vibe. I noticed squirrels wouldn't even move out of the way and in the spring the exhaust note attracted male grossbeaks.

I suppose if you want to make a 200 into a 220, that would be OK, it might then qualify as a man's bike in some circles.

kawagumby wrote:A high revving 200 for wide open terrain is a waste, since there are lots of lighter more powerful, better suspended bikes that will do the job better. The 220 is better suited for tight, demanding terrain and is a true man's bike (unlike the 200 which is favored by riding moms and young people wearing orthodontic apparatus). I owned both at the same time, and both were modified with fmf pipes and aftermarket reeds. Both were tuned well. I sold the 200 after about a year of farting around with tuning, swapping pipes, etc. I began to feel inadequate on it, even though I removed the little blue fender tool kit and the stock hand guards...I just couldn't get the right vibe. I noticed squirrels wouldn't even move out of the way and in the spring the exhaust note attracted male grossbeaks.

I suppose if you want to make a 200 into a 220, that would be OK, it might then qualify as a man's bike in some circles.

Right on Kawagumby.

I began to feel inadequate on it...

Well there 'ya have it.

Some riders can grow into a bike, others choose lesser bikes they don't feel inadequate on to save their fragile psyches...and paint all their little blue pills some other color so ...shhhh...no one will ever know!!

It's easy to turn a 200 into a 220. Problem is, after you've strapped on all that extra weight to slow it down, there ain't much room to sit.

canyncarvr wrote:Re: 'I was thinking on starting to collect the parts...'

Then 'collect' another 200 cylinder, send it to EG to make it a 225.

Yeah I think this may be the long term goal. I have been reading about Eri cGore and have visited his site.
Thanks, CC

Please take note: If you end up having EG do such a job, ensure 6X that he knows what fuel you are going to run. Talk to him on the phone about it, put it in an email, tape a note to the cylinder/head, leave a phone message, write him a letter.

There have been quite a few instances of 'pump gas' being specified, and the returned parts would NOT run on anything less than race fuel.

Why? Good question. Personally, I think it's because there is a general lack of understanding by what the people doing the work are doing. There are unintended consequences of the work they do because of that lack of understanding.

I've had port work done on a couple of 2Ts by people that KNEW what they were doing..by their own profession of course, and by reputation. The results in both cases were bad. 'Bad' meaning I didn't get what I asked for..and I was exceedingly clear on what the end result was supposed to be.

ForwardMotion has never worked on any of my stuff.

Do be sure to cover all the bases if you're considering a 'big bore' project. Hopefully you won't encounter any surprises..no bad ones, I mean.

Good luck!

I suspect a well tuned and fresh 200 OR 220 doesn't leave much on the table.

It sounds like porting or otherwise extensively modifying either motor is a risky business.

Tried and true methods like a pipe, a carb modification and a head change sure do make for a satisfying 220 and I guess a 200 as well.

The only way I'd entertain the thought of extensive port work was if I had a spare cylinder and head and knew i could put it all back into a previously running configuration.

Heck, my MOTOR will spank my buddies Gasser 200, his BIKE will spank mine.

Heck, my MOTOR will spank my buddies Gasser 200, his BIKE will spank mine.

Is that, then, a mutual spanking? A conjointive and collectively enjoyed spanking?


Oh my!

My buddies KTM 200exc doesn't stand a chance against my 20 year old 200. One way spanking there. Of course, we're going through the KTM looking for problems right now, so we'll see how it ends up. I figured his KTM would have a bit more snap than my KDX, but it does not. Not even close.....

You'll find something wrong. If you don't, look summore.

I've ridden a punkin 200exc. Power-wise it was enemic NOwhere.

imo...not to be confused with any published factual facts to the contrary..your mileage may vary...your rights may vary depending on your state of residence...please read and understand the complete MSDS published before use..concentration of contents for the purpose of inhalation may result in nausea, dizziness, and even death...price does not include taxes, license, transportion or documentation fees..amen

Ah, but it appears that he's riding the mystical E model - it too was fully corpuscleated motor-wise.

Yeah, you ought to see it when those two bikes get to spanking in the grass out there. Quite bizarre.

Seriously, though, the two or three KTM 200's I've ridden had little, short bottom ends. (Picture THAT )
The Gasser isn't much better

My buddies punkin feels pretty good right off idle, then goes flat and rather boring until the powervalve flops open. Strange. I know it's not right, just not sure what we'll find. Pretty sure jetting is all whack (seems wicked rich), and the top end is questionable.

My 89 is pretty wicked though. I think it's damn near spot on for tuning. The DG pipe, boyesen reeeds, and jetting really woke it up. I wanna get the head and carb done by ron when I can though.


J.

I've owned a KTM-200 & 300 and I can honestly tell you your buddies 200 needs some TLC. The KTM will spank a KDX in handling, weight, and especially motor wise.
A KTM-300 is a tractor, the 200 is a sports car. You can get lazy with 300's and let the engine make up for mistakes like a thumper. The 200 needs to be ridden.

Loved that 200.