Ze bikey no go. Clutch problem.

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jc7622
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Ze bikey no go. Clutch problem.

Post by jc7622 »

I was at a race this weekend and took a hard fall. When I got up I gave it the gas but the bike didn't go. I naturally assumed it was in neutral so clicked the shifter down into first and still no go. The bike runs fine, shifts fine, but it won't go. The clutch lever and the arm move freely, but there is absolutely zero spring tension pulling against the clutch lever. I'm tearing it down tomorrow. Anyone want to guess what it might be?

When I went down the bike was pinned wide open for a few seconds until I could free my hand. At some point I pulled in the clutch to keep from killing the motor when I picked it up. I might have pulled in the lever at super high revs. Could this have broken anything?

I checked the plates when I was replacing the shift shaft a couple weeks ago and it was just within specs.
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Post by Colorado Mike »

Obviously it sounds like something is jamming the clutch in the "disconnected" mode. High revs at the time of pulling the lever shouldn't have caused it, it's expected that you would pull the clutch lever in the event of a stuck throttle as you hit the kill switch. I'm wondering if something got put in wrong when you inspected the plates and then came into play in the dump.
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Post by canyncarvr »

...probably them springs.............. I told 'ya to watch out for 'em. :neutral:


Does it have any resistance to movement? The bike I mean.

Even with the clutch fully engaged (lever pulled) the KDX is hard to move.

If there is literally NO resistance to movement, I'd guess the crank is completely 'disconnected' from the transmission.

The basket came off with the shift-shaft replacement, right?

'I'm wondering if something got put in wrong when you inspected the plates and then came into play in the dump.'

That's got my vote.

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Post by jc7622 »

If it is in gear it will roll forward but not freely like when it is in neutral. It had about four hours riding time since putting it back together. Something about the crash caused it. I'll know soon.
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Post by cleoent »

i'm having this exact problem. Stock clutch, i've never been inside. There's some resitance when the bike is in gear, but it jsut won't go. It's like the clutch lever is permanently pulled in.

jc7622, did you resolve the problem?
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Post by jc7622 »

I've taken the clutch cover off and everything to tht point looks ok. I'll take the basket out when maybe this week. How did yours get that way? The result of a crash or did it just stop. I have a friend on a KTM who had the same problem. Turns out his clutch plates were under spec thickness. He had about 30 seconds of warning and then that was that and his bike just stopped. He had to replace the clutch plates. I checked my plates a while back and they were right at spec. I'll check them again.
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Post by cleoent »

My boss was riding it, he fell, when he got back up, the clutch was no more.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: 'but there is absolutely zero spring tension pulling against the clutch lever.'

Is the shaft on your cover (jc) OK?

Zero resistance when pulling the lever ('..absolutely zero spring tension pulling against the clutch lever.') and the bike acting like 'It's like the clutch lever is permanently pulled in..' (leo) would fit with that rod being twisted/bent/tweaked.

How that would fit into the bike being dropped, I don't know. The arm off that rod is fairly well protected....

You can see the plates through the oil fill hole and could tell if they were 'loose' or not due to an out-of-position rod (leo's situation). Once you took the cover off, the plates would look fine (jc's situation).

JC...with the cover off does the bike act the same way? As, 'If it is in gear it will roll forward but not freely like when it is in neutral.'?

If that is still the case you will be able to SEE the disconnect through the clutch. The friction plates will be moving, the steel plates won't be moving.

THAT would put the problem 'INside' the clutch.

Leo...which side did your bike fall on? JC...yours went down on the LH side?

Don't know about you guys...but I wanna know what's going on! :wink:

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Post by jc7622 »

CC,

It is strange that we have two people here with the same problem at the same time - apparently a crash caused clutch failure.

I did fall on the left side. The bike didn't tumble or flip. It was really rocky and muddy and I went down on the left side and slid about 15'. It was quite a smack and bent the bars, bent the left hand guard up, bent the bar clamp bolts and broke off a fork bleeder valve. The bike was pinned wide open for a few seconds. I'm not sure if the clutch lever was pulled in by the ground at that time or not. I did reach down and backed off the throttle and pulled in the clutch so not to kill it when I picked it up - possibly not in that order though - possibly pulled in the clutch with th ebike still pinned. One thing that has come to mind is that maybe the bike ran for a few seconds pinned wide open with the clutch lever pulled halfway in and just wore out the clutch plates, which were pretty close to being out of spec when I checked them a few weeks ago.

I first though that the shaft or push rod was broken, but it looks fine. The bike is up on a stand. With the clutch cover off and the bike in gear I can roll the rear wheel (with some resitance) and the inner clutch hub part with the springs and metal plates will rotate but the outer housing with the friction plates is mostly stationary. It will rotate a little bit everytime the piston passes TDC.
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Post by canyncarvr »

>|<>QBB<
jc7622 wrote:With the clutch cover off and the bike in gear I can roll the rear wheel (with some resitance) and the inner clutch hub part with the springs and metal plates will rotate but the outer housing with the friction plates is mostly stationary. It will rotate a little bit everytime the piston passes TDC.
Certainly is 'in' the clutch, then.

Yeah...it is coinkydinky. I've always found it amusing when two so disparate events (different bikes, different places, different owners...same time..same symptoms..AND something that I've never heard of happening) appear to be so closely matched.

It's just odd ain't it?

To my point of possibly some matter......

The clutch spec measurements in the manual have never made sense to me. Why? Because I've bought brandy new 'stuff' that was under spec! In keeping with my above blather..I've found the exact same thing to be true on my Honda..and the Honda manual.

:hmm: Sounds like a conspiracy!!

I've replace my clutch parts twice..and then not because they weren't working fine. It just seemed time to do it is all.

I used XR400 friction plates. The advantage I got out of using them is I haven't heard a peep out of my clutch in years. With the OEM clutch, it didn't have to get beat on much before it started screaming about it.

BTW...the XR plates being considerably bigger..you cannot use the large conical spring and seat from the OEM assy. Not if you use ALL XR plates anyway. I ended up using one OEM plate on the outside of the pack expressly to be able to put those pieces in.

...anyway.....

Please do post what you found to be the solution.

Leo, too!

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Post by cleoent »

i will post up soon after i open her up. I haven't had a chance to do it yet, maybe in a couple weeks.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Neither one of you guys fixed this yet?

That can't be!

What happened?

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Post by jc7622 »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:Neither one of you guys fixed this yet?

That can't be!

What happened?

This is my first post in months. Do I get a free ham or something? I have been extremely busy all summer and it has been too damn hot to ride anyway, but it's cooling off now and I am starting to get the itch to do some more riding this fall and winter. I dropped my motor off at the shop yesterday because I didn't want to screw with it. I'll just let them fix it. I'll let you know what it was. My guess is that I fried my clutch plates. They were borderline being within specs anyway and when I crashed the throttle was pinned WFO with the clutch lever ground into the mud. I'll bet I just wore the plates out. Anything new on the KDX board here?
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Post by canyncarvr »

Anything new? Of course!!! The bestest newest thing is...I just figured out what to do with this old ham I got..........

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Post by cleoent »

I'm waiting too.... i haven't even opened mine up yet. I'm waiting for you to figure out what happened!
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Post by jc7622 »

Still at the shop. They stay pretty busy. I dropped off two bikes at once and told him to do the KX65 first.
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Post by Indawoods »

Well now... that's just plain silly! Not only did you take it to the shop... but told them to do the KX65 first! :lol:
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Post by jc7622 »

I got a little burned out working on so many bikes. I also am getting burned out hearing kids whine about their bikes not working. :shock:
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Post by canyncarvr »

'STFU or I'll beat you senseless!'

That'll work.

I wouldn't expect 'the shop' to supply any meaningful explanation of anything. They could work on it, charge you money, replace some parts..and give it back to you in the same condition as when you took it in, and have NO clue what happened.

Whatever they DO say immediately gets put into the column of what least likely happened.

I rode a 450 Honda this past weekend. The clutch was a mess..slipped like crazy. The shop owner that last worked on it rode it, said it was fine. I couldn't believe it! I don't mean the thing slipped a little bit...I mean the engine would jump 4K-RPM..and NOTHING would happen. It was as plain as day that something was wrong.

Nope. Not according to the expert.

And that's about what you can expect from most dealers, most mechanics, most people...complete BS. To start with, they're ignorant. When given the chance, opportunity or occasion to learn something, they don't. That makes them stupid.

Sure. There probably are exceptions. I know that because I've been told it is so. My personal experience..decades of it...says 100% of 'em are full of crap.

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Post by DirtBikeDad »

I had the exact same thing happen with my son's XR100 (since converted to Team Green). Slammed the ground hard with the left side bar and shift lever taking the brunt of the impact. Picked the bike up and started right off, but acted like the clutch was pulled all the way in all the time. The transmission on that bike was so smooth that it felt/sounded like it was not going into gear at all (up or down) and I got no propulsion at all even with the back tire off the ground. After about 5 minutes of tweaking, banging, shifting, adjusting etc. I had decided to go get a rope and tow her back to the truck thinking it must have fried the clutch, broken a shift fork or something equally nasty.

On a whim I ran the lever end adjustment all the way in, all the way out and then back to where it was and got a little movement for my efforts. I then opened up the split adjuster (center section of the cable under the number plate) a few rounds and voila, we were back in business. Never had a lick of trouble out of it again during the last year we owned the bike. To this day I don't know if the cable was kinked, stretched or just got trash in it to hang it up in the fall.....guessing it was the latter since it never repeated or got worse over time.
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