New owner question

[bezoar]

I recently purchased a 2004 KDX 200. It is low time, excellent condition and stock. I am planning on doing non competitive trail riding, mainly following an 11 year old new rider. I suspect the forks have never been serviced. I am planning to do so, and while I am at it considering a spring change. My question is, is this necessary if I am not planning to ride aggressively? I weight 170. Assuming I do make a change, which springs are easiest? I don't want to go to the trouble of cutting PVC if I can help it. It is my understanding that some of the springs are shorter and need spacers.

I have greatly enjoyed and appreciated all the great advise on this site, and I thank you for your thoughts.

[Indawoods]

Cutting the PVC is really a non-event. Very easy to do..... You have to have some kind of preload on the springs and this will have to be adjusted to your liking..... there is no specific length on any springs I have seen.... I mean they are close but one can always be a tad longer....

It’s the 1996-99 0.38kg/mm XR400 springs that are interchangeable and commonly used in 1995 and up KDX200/220s

[bezoar]

So do all the springs come with a standard 8-10mm pre-load spacer/pvc that can then be adjusted according to taste? Which aftermarket spring product is easiest to install?

[Indawoods]

Springs do not come with any spacers.... I used to run 5-7mm preload. This keeps them ready to be compressed but are softer on the initial hit for little hits. Just a few mm's makes a big difference on how they feel.

Just go to the hardware store and buy some Schedule 40 1" PVC pipe. It's the white stuff....

[bezoar]

So, which 0.38 aftermarket spring is the same length as the stock spring so that the stock spacer will most likely give the correct pre-load? Fredette? Racetech? Or are they all different meaning that I will have to replace my stock spacer with pvc.

Thanks again, your advice is appreciated

[Indawoods]

Try to get Genuine Honda springs... they are better quality and can be had cheaper through sites like Thumper Talk. Just join and ask... makes it a whole lot cheaper and you get a better quality spring.

PVC is cheap... so if you don't like the preload your running... make another set. It is so easy to change the springs on a KDX a child could do it.

Chances are that the stock spacers are not going to be the correct preload... as a matter of fact, I know of no one that has been able to use them.

[bezoar]

That explains it, thanks Inda

[canyncarvr]

If you have access to a miter saw..that makes cutting PVC a snap. Pieces will be square on both ends, very little filing required (just something to remove any bits..NOT to make them square).

If you're doing it by hand, use one piece of PVC to guide your hacksaw blade while you cut the other piece..don't cut freehand..without a guide. That will get you spacers that won't be square at'all.

But..maybe not everyone cuts like I do!

Get the genuine Honda springs as Inda suggested. They will be about 60mm longer than the OEM springs.

What makes the most sense to you: Use the available length of the inner fork tube to hold as much spring as possible (skinny preload) or use a very short spring..and fill up the leftover space with a steel spacer?

Is that steel spacer going to benefit the spring action in any way? What IS the suspension benefit of a piece of steel anyway?


To put it another way...short springs are stupid.

Oh...PVC comes in white that is NOT schedule 40. DO use 1" schedule 40 PVC...the thicker stuff.

BTW, there is a clip on the bottom of the spring that MUST be transferred over to the new spring.

AND..when you tighten the fork cap on reassy, hold the cap, turn the fork leg. Do NOT hold the LEG and turn the CAP. The latter method winds up the spring and gets you scritchy noises when you ride.

Yes...'scritchy' is an approved master mechanic word. I read it on the internet!

[bezoar]

Thanks for the advise!. Got my xr 400 oem .38's ordered, as well as boyesen 607's. Planning on using moble - 1 atf for the forks per recommendations on this site. Will give 5-7mm pre-load a try. Will either get schedule 40 1" pvc, or if I only need a few mm of spacer I may just use washers.

My only other concern is accurately measuring pre-load. Have read a bunch on this site but still can't quit envision it. Since I have never taken these forks apart ( or any fork for that matter since around 1977 ) it may become more obvious when I get in there.

I will do whatever it takes to make sure my forks don't get scritchy.

Thanks again for all the help. Love this site!

[canyncarvr]

My only other concern is accurately measuring pre-load. Have read a bunch on this site but still can't quit envision it.

Keeping in mind what the point is of the spacer, when you see it, it will be clear enough.

Assemble the fork without a spacer..so you have your spring (with a spring seat on the bottom of said spring) in the tube, the cap threaded on all the way. Measure the space between the top of the spring and the bottom of the cap. A spacer cut to THAT measurement will give you zero preload. ADD to that measurement, then, the amount of preload you want. Space is 3mm? Want 7mm of preload? Your spacer will need to be 10mm.

You want to compress the spring to your choice of preload..so you need a spacer that gives you that amount of squeeze PLUS takes up the space, too!

Measure each fork leg separately, cut a spacer to fit each leg to give you the desired preload. The two spacers may not be the same length, 'cuz the springs may not be the same length.

What is important is that the amount of preload is the same on both fork legs.

[bezoar]

Thank canyoncarver, think I understand. I enjoy all your posts!

[canyncarvr]

Thank canyoncarver, think I understand. I enjoy all your posts!

You realize, of course, what that means?

You gott'a be somewhat 'mental' as 'they' say.

Hell...I din't even realize I've been misspelling my nic all these years!!!




It's all in good fun, don'tcha know!!

[bezoar]

A sign of true genius is the ability to spell a word in more than one way!

[KarlP]

"Will either get schedule 40 1" pvc, or if I only need a few mm of spacer I may just use washers."

There is more than one way to skin a dog....

Seems to me I used 3/4" schd 40 unions. When you get in there you'll see whats what. It is very straight forward.

"Assemble the fork without a spacer..so you have your spring (with a spring seat on the bottom of said spring) in the tube, the cap threaded on all the way. Measure the space between the top of the spring and the bottom of the cap. A spacer cut to THAT..."

THATS it. Keep in mind what CC is saying is that the cap is threaded onto the rod that comes up through the spring, not the top of the forkleg. Without a spacer the spring is too short by an inch or two, depending on the spring. OEM springs are short by five or six inches and so have a long steel spacer. I always thought that was strange....

Still, no hurry. You'll have a couple of weeks at least before that 11 year old is out running you

[bezoar]

Thanks, I'm ready to go, just waiting on parts. Debating whether I should make a go at removing some valve shims while I have the forks off. Not sure it will make much difference at the old granny speed I ride at. I do however enjoy taking things apart.

Regarding my 11 year old, I fear the day he finds out his xr 80 has more than 3 gears!

[canyncarvr]

Re: 'Keep in mind what CC is saying is that the cap is threaded onto the rod that comes up through the spring, not the top of the forkleg.'

That's a good catch! Thanks. It didn't even occur to me that what I said could be so simply applied....to the wrong piece.

Re: remove some valve shims...

You don't have to remove the base valve to change the springs..the cartridge can stay IN the forks.

If you go the BV removal route..count the number of 24mm shims, take out 1/2 of 'em. A number of riders have reported that (on OEM forks..OEM valving) to be a fairly sound approach.

Note: If you do NOT have quite a stack of 24s (like 10-12 of 'em)..if your base valve or the valving on it has been changed already, the 'take out 1/2 of 'em' idea does not apply!

..to take the base valve out, a 14mm hex is required...an impact wrench (and the complete knowledge of how it works) is most helpful. You take the base valve out before you take the top caps off.

Another btw..but DO NOT try to loosen the top cap while the top CLAMP bolts are tight. You must loosen the top clamp bolts first!!! Failure to do so will make you cuss....after you break/strip something.

[bezoar]

Thanks for the heads-up. I do, however, expect a certain amount of cussin', breakin' and strippin'

[canyncarvr]

Cussin' is fine. Expected...required even.

Breakin'? If that means time-out for a beer and a clove..you bet!

Strippin? She can do that anytime she wants if I can watch!