Going for spoo free again!

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Indawoods
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Going for spoo free again!

Post by Indawoods »

After using the new prototype lighting coil that I had made, I have been thinking about spoo again.

I retarded my ignition a hair... slightly less than midway between the middle and top mark. Now I am getting ready to go buy some Rotella for the clutches at Farm and Fleet. They carry NGK plugs so I was thinking about buying a 7 range plug since I never am pinned WFO. I am also going to get some of the fancier EIX, EG 8 range plugs...

I may end up changing my mix to 50:1 too....

Any other things you can think of?
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Post by canyncarvr »

I've been around the 'tune to spoo' horn a few times. Gave up. Every thing I tried that positively effected spoo (less of it) negatively effected performance.

You will have better luck, I hope.

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Post by Indawoods »

Yeah... I think I may be going the wrong way with the timing issue.... Going to try advancing it a tad and see what that get's me..... Then I can forget about the hotter plug.
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Post by Indawoods »

By Eric Gorr...

AFFECTS OF THE IGNITION TIMING

Here is how changes in the static ignition timing affects the power band of a Japanese dirt bike. Advancing the timing will make the power band hit harder in the mid range but fall flat on top end. Advancing the timing gives the flame front in the combustion chamber, adequate time to travel across the chamber to form a great pressure rise. The rapid pressure rise contributes to a power band's "Hit". In some cases the pressure rise can be so great that it causes an audible pinging noise from the engine. As the engine rpm increases, the pressure in the cylinder becomes so great that pumping losses occur to the piston. That is why engines with too much spark advance or too high of a compression ratio, run flat at high rpm.

Retarding the timing will make the power band smoother in the mid-range and give more top end over rev. When the spark fires closer to TDC, the pressure rise in the cylinder isn't as great. The emphasis is on gaining more degrees of retard at high rpm. This causes a shift of the heat from the cylinder to the pipe. This can prevent the piston from melting at high rpm, but the biggest benefit is how the heat affects the tuning in the pipe. When the temperature rises, the velocity of the waves in the pipe increases. At high rpm this can cause a closer synchronization between the returning compression wave and the piston speed. This effectively extends the rpm peak of the pipe.
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Post by canyncarvr »

What we need is a DynaTek ignition for the KDX!

I got one on my Banshee. I plug it into my 'puter..map advance and retard points to whatever I want...and I can choose from four custom curves with a DIP switch!

Now that you have your lighting coil issues resolved...you can get started on a programmable igntion box!!

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Post by Indawoods »

:hmm:
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Post by fuzzy »

'91 KDX 200 Project $300 KDX
'95 KDX 200 Project $600 KDX
'94 WR 250 Always a project
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Post by Jeb »

>|<>QBB<
Indawoods wrote: . . . Retarding the timing will . . . give more top end over rev . . .
I found this to be the case on the 220.

I'll agree every bit about how retarding the timing transfers the heat to the exhaust gases. Because the gases are hotter 1) the viscosity of the gases decreases and 2) that given mass of exhaust gas is larger in volume, the combined effect getting the return wave back to the exhaust ports quicker. By speeding up the return wave you get better port blocking at higher RPMs, keeping more of the fresh intake mixture in the combustion chamber.

A great read Inda . . . but what do you think the timing is going to change along the lines of the spooge?

Like Carvr I think it may be a loosing battle. The reason I think we get the spooge with Ron's mod (and this is speculation) is that, while the air/fuel ratio can be just fine, the QUANTITY of air/fuel is a bit beyond what the capacity of the engine will deal with. Stoichiometrically everything is just fine and the burn is good but the engine has got a little too much coming through it.

What bothers you about the spooge anyway? I get people telling me that I'm running too rich, yadda yadda yadda but that's the only drawback for me and that's not really a drawback. Kinda like my little secret, what they don't know won't hurt 'em!!
"No farmer ever plowed a field by turning it over in his mind" -George E. Woodbury

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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: 'What bothers you about the spooge anyway?'

I could do without the spatters on the back of my helmet, my chest protector...

Mine's not that bad, really. Running clear gasoline (no alcohol) seems to help some.

A repeat..again even...but if the downside of my bike running like it did last weekend is having some black on my fender and a drip on my back wheel once in awhile...that's fine with me!!

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Post by Indawoods »

It's just not very clean... if you know what I mean. I see allot of 2 strokers that don't have the spoo... makes me wonder why. Makes for a messy packing change too! :mad:

BTW... I am running a woods pipe.... :wink:
Last edited by Indawoods on 06:48 pm Apr 02 2009, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Indawoods »

I found a 2 stroke programmable ignition... but you have to program it yourself..... and it's hidious!

HERE

I will live with what I got. :mrgreen:
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Post by barryadam »

I'd like to eliminate it too, but it's not top priority right now.

Next time you're at Costco, look for a jug of Oil Eater.

http://www.oileater.com

It really does a great job of the cleanup.

And get some Oxyclean powder for your laundry. :lol:
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Post by fuzzy »

Y'all got me thinkin. :shock:
WOuld be cool to have a programmable ignition, but we already have a nice CDI box that alters timing w/ rpm...As opposed to something fixed like a magneto...So let assume for a second that kaw got the curve perfect from factory.

In messing with CDI equipped older I4 street bikes over the years...It's very common to replace the factory coils as they suck. Idle-midrage burn will become drastically improved....Changing nothing else in the ignition system. Coils are the most universal piece to the system as well. Looking at the fische a KX250 coil looks simply beefier than the KDX one so I wonder what installing a different/better coil would do?

I think Inda's new lighting coil is the poo, and every KDX should have one. I'm gonna send you one off the WR. However, I'm still baffled how the charging coil effected ignition performance....Proof is in the puddin though!! :supz:
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'95 KDX 200 Project $600 KDX
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Post by Indawoods »

Hmmm..... would be interested in trying a different coil if I knew the specs vs the stock one.

Those should be pretty cheap used....
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Post by Indawoods »

There is this... May have to try one....

I messaged them to get some specs...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0176167427
Last edited by Indawoods on 10:26 am Apr 03 2009, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Indawoods »

I wonder if any of the hybred guys used the stock KX coil and if they did... could they tell any difference...
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: Programmable igntions..

A couple of things.

In regard to the one Inda first mentioned:
1.
The unit will trigger from a range of sources including points, Hall effect sensors, optical sensors, or the 5 volt signal from the car's ECU.
I don't see that includes exciter coil input from a rotor/coil assembly. Some sort of trigger would need to be devised from the exciter input..and I'll bet'cha the box needs power...as in DC, regulated power, which = battery.

2.
..but we already have a nice CDI box that alters timing w/ rpm
Yes. And that box can be modified. It's a fairly simple matter of an R/C saturation. Jaguar did it. The problem is getting TO the parts..they being all epoxy potted. I have one of his boxes. I have yet to fuss with hooking it up because it would require modifying my existing harness, and I'm not crazy about that. I'll have to get to that someday.........

3.
There is this... May have to try one.... I messaged them to get some specs...
Which says...'This Coil Supplies up to 34% more energy than stock,'

I am always doubtful of such claims. More 'energy'? I presume that means more POWER. Power comes from current multiplied by voltage. More voltage can be had by simply putting more winds on the secondary of the transformer...but current will be reduced.

More current to drive the thing would come from.....the OEM controller. How happy a situation is THAT going to be? Things built to run 'x' amps generally are NOT happy getting sucked for '2x' amps. ..or, more often, the attempt to do that. Such attempts generally lead to too much heat and subsequent failure.

AND...they can't be bothered with supplying a plug boot? It's $70 and they can't put a BOOT on it? Why is that? Because the hi-tension wire they use won't FIT in any boot? Or...they just don't want to supply an NGK resistor boot because they cost $5? I'd rather pay $75 and just plug the thing in rather than wonder how come it doesn't come with a boot.


There is no such thing as a 'free lunch'.

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Post by Indawoods »

All that is true!

I'm thinking that even a 10% increase would be beneficial... and the OEM components should be able to handle 10%....

This is why I asked for specs from AMR....
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Post by canyncarvr »

What specs are you looking for? Any specification I've seen on coils deals with resistance checks for primary and seconday coils. I have seen current draw figures...but not very often.

And listed specs vary hugely if you try to use them for arriving at other values. Say...if the primary coil is noted as being 'good' if it's 1.5-2.25 ohms..that's a 50% difference!

What you need is for some schmuck to BUY one and give it a go.......

:hmm:

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Post by Indawoods »

If you buy the coil pak I will send you a boot! :cool:

Here is some reading on spoo...
http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.ph ... light=spoo
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