Going for spoo free again!

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Indawoods
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Post by Indawoods »

I was just wanting to know exactly how much more it puts out vs a stock KDX coil.
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Indawoods
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Post by Indawoods »

This is a very good read!

http://www.strappe.com/plugs.html
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Post by Indawoods »

According to that article I am running a too cold plug. My plug is always sooty...
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Post by fuzzy »

Need to basically know what the resistance rating is of the CDI system. Coil matches. Coil can be of slightly higher resistance, but not less (bad heat). So, if the stock coil/CDI is a 2ohm setup, any single in/out coil 2-3ohms will work. I find it interesting that coil is spec'd for the KDX/KLX...I'm betting that has to due with nothing more than mounting design....Maybe plugs for input side too(can always be cut, and setup to match).

As far as the boot goes at least they put a HT lead on it! Most street coils don't even come with that! They don't know if you want an angled or straight boot....Maybe the KDX/KLX differ here. :neutral: That's still not to gaurantee that it works...Just going off my experiences with other stuff. I might have a yamaha coil to send down.

I still don't understand how this works, but as we know Inda isn't the first to report this benefit. Someone clear something up for me. I'm under the impression that there is an ignition side and lighting coil side to the stator assembly. Ignition stator being the only required piece to get the motor to run ala MX bike, and the lighting coil being just that...A generator. How one could help the other is beyond me...SO I must be missing something big time.


Yeah, CC the MSD et al do require a battery.

Nice read on the plugs...Gordon Jennings...Smart mofo.
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Indawoods
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Post by Indawoods »

I have started cross referencing plugs... trying to find something inbetween a 7 and a 8 range NGK plug from Champion , Denso and others... not having too much luck in that department. I do have some N3C's which cross reference a B8ES... Also wonder what would happen running a non-resistor plug. Don't want to fry my CDI....
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Post by sparkingdogg »

to be honest, i kinda LIKE the spooge. i like the blue smoke even better. my 4T's are too refined, too clean. my 2T's are dirty, stinky, oily, greasy, and loud compared with the xr's and such.

i am running 32:1 just to make more smoke!!! :mrgreen: i like to razz my bike in the driveway when the wife comes outside, the smoke and spooge drives her back inside! she hates it, the noise, grease, smoke... :twisted:

think i am gonna sell off all the 4T's i have. too clean.

that's what the riding gear is for, anyway... get it dirty!

now the e-series 200 i have, that thing blows spooge all over itself! runs off the s/a, puddles on the floor. that one is a bit excessive!
1999 KDX240 big bore street legal, 2008 KLX300R, 2002 XR250R stock, 1985 XL600R stock, 2001 KDX220 bone stock street legal, 1988 VN750 dresser, 1975 RD350 stock, 1983 GL650I Sliverwing Interstate with sidecar, 1975 Kawasaki F11 (early KDX!), about 15 other bikes that come and go!
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Post by sparkingdogg »

>|<>QBB<
Indawoods wrote:I have started cross referencing plugs... trying to find something inbetween a 7 and a 8 range NGK plug from Champion , Denso and others... not having too much luck in that department. I do have some N3C's which cross reference a B8ES... Also wonder what would happen running a non-resistor plug. Don't want to fry my CDI....
i am running a non-r plug in one of my bikes now. nothing has fried yet! the parts house was out of the r's. i thought it was for radio interference, anyway...
1999 KDX240 big bore street legal, 2008 KLX300R, 2002 XR250R stock, 1985 XL600R stock, 2001 KDX220 bone stock street legal, 1988 VN750 dresser, 1975 RD350 stock, 1983 GL650I Sliverwing Interstate with sidecar, 1975 Kawasaki F11 (early KDX!), about 15 other bikes that come and go!
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Post by sparkingdogg »

i just checked my '89 shop manual. r-series for us, non-r for canada and uk. but i don't know how the e and h series cdi compares.
1999 KDX240 big bore street legal, 2008 KLX300R, 2002 XR250R stock, 1985 XL600R stock, 2001 KDX220 bone stock street legal, 1988 VN750 dresser, 1975 RD350 stock, 1983 GL650I Sliverwing Interstate with sidecar, 1975 Kawasaki F11 (early KDX!), about 15 other bikes that come and go!
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Indawoods
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Post by Indawoods »

I have an extra head so I can check the depth... :supz:
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Post by Indawoods »

Depth may be correct but if you lose dependability over the failure rate of Champion plugs vs NGK... then it wouldn't be worth it. I did notice that N3C's cover both ranges of 8 and 9 of the NGK. Kinda tells me that they be colder than the NGK 8's.

Oh well... fun to talk about though...

I think I will play with the needle a little more....
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Post by fuzzy »

THe champoins suck. The R won't hurt anything in the system at all....It's just meant to help keep noise out of the system. Probably helps more if you were wearing an intercom. I think suppression core wire probably makes a bigger difference here. NGK does make .5 heat ranges, but I dunno if they make them in the BxES type. Depth is the same regardless.

Pull pipe off and cook it in a drum with an inch or so of methanol in the bottom as to ensure de-spooge of the pipe. We do this with the karts as they spoo like a MOFO to the point where the pipe will start dropping off in performance (12:1 pure castor...Only tuned right at WOT). You'd be amazed at what comes out of a pipe...Dunno what this would do to the nickel coating :mrgreen:
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Post by canyncarvr »

I've run non-r plugs a lot. Whether the plug is resistive or not has nothing to do with the sparky-box.
fuzzy wrote:I still don't understand how this works, but as we know Inda isn't the first to report this benefit. Someone clear something up for me. I'm under the impression that there is an ignition side and lighting coil side to the stator assembly. Ignition stator being the only required piece to get the motor to run ala MX bike, and the lighting coil being just that...A generator. How one could help the other is beyond me...SO I must be missing something big time.
Yes. The lighting coil is about 180º (across from, diametrically arranged) from the sparky coil.

You are not missing anything..except maybe an understanding of flux field compression and expansion as impacted by coils.

That's my guess about it, anyway. Yes...that guess based on absolutlely nothing but conjecture. Hell...I have no idea if flux fields CAN be compressed.

Wait..yes, they can. At least based on diagrammed equivalents I've seen of the earth's magnetic field. It's much 'closer' at the poles from what it is at the equator...AND the solar wind 'bends' it even more.

Image

From: Here!

Consider that the larger light coil will compress the flux field to a greater extent than the OEM light coil..maybe the movement of those closer lines of force (in addition to the movement of the rotor itself) generate a 'better' signal out of the exciter coil.

Gee...the more I SAY that...the more SENSE it makes!!

THERE'S a sure sign it ain't right............

Just musing...........

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Post by fuzzy »

generate a 'better' signal out of the exciter coil.
Yeah, that's all I could fathom.
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Post by kdx633 »

Maybe you guy's have heard this before.The spoo problem in 2 strokes is a result of chemical additive in pump gas who's purpose is to "fuel" the catalytic conversion process.Problem is it does'nt evaporate in the combustion chamber because the heat carrying components in a 2 stroke (piston and cylinder) are not hot enough.In other word's flash point is too high.Simply switching to a fuel with a lower flash point (in my case c-12) has pretty much cured the problem. The multiple chemicals that make up a fuel have different flash point temps.Yes after lugging through the woods for a while there will be a small amount of oily residue around the muffler that is expected.A very good resource for this info Precision Automotive Research,Dr Dave Redszus 630-776-4402.They do fuel research for everything from go carts to indy cars just about every major race team in motorsports uses them.Call him when have about an hour to talk fuels he will inform you without having to buy something or listen to sales pitch.
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Post by Indawoods »

Makes sense... Most 2 stroke bikes I see are race bikes that are spoo-less. Probably running C-12.

After taking it out this weekend... I could care less.... It ran soooo good I will let it be. I'll keep wiping it's chin.... :supz:
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Post by canyncarvr »

I've run a few tanks of 92 'clear' (no alcohol)..and the spoo changed a good bit. It's still there...but it's more carbon-like than drippy.

It would be interesting to find out what it IS. It's not fuel..it certainly isn't oil. It has the viscosity of water. Hell...maybe it IS water!

Re: 'The multiple chemicals that make up a fuel...'

Used to be they used chemicals...nowadays they just use crap!

Uh...Inda...I don't think that's the chin you be wiping.......

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Post by barryadam »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:
Uh...Inda...I don't think that's the chin you be wiping.......
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by fuzzy »

c12 is a great gas, but is way too much for even a milled head KDX. Not that it's bad, will still run great, but if you can get a hold of VP Red or something it should save you $. Just FYI. For the price of c12 you can probably get a lower octane fuel w/ cool modern oxygenators that would actually boost power. c12 seems to be simply the most widely available VP fuel. c10 would be a good choice too.
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Post by kdx633 »

"way to much for a milled head kdx"do mean it is more than you need ? I think c-12 is oxygenated and it makes an enormous power difference.Most people do'nt jet right for it has been my experience.They run way too rich.If I am incorrect please enlighten me.
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Post by Jeb »

Some facts:

C-12 is NOT oxygenated . . . http://vpracingfuels.com/fuels_leaded.asp

I've run pure C-12, C-12 cut with premium pump (up to 50%), VP Red, VP 110, and Torco and Renegade fuels @ 110 and 112 octane. While I wasn't trying to change the amount of spoo my observations were that there was no observable change in spoo levels.

I've run both a KDX220 and an RM250 with head milled/shaped for race gas quite successfully on about 101, 102 octane. This is a 50/50 mix of a fuel with about 110 octane (VP Racing, Torco, Renegade) and premium pump. Shooting for octane levels in the low 100s is adequate.

The following is my humble opinion. The spoo we get out of an engine that Ron Black has modified is different than what you might get out of an engine that has something else going on, probably something wrong. Not necessarily different in composition (although that COULD be true), but different for the reason(s) why it's there.

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