Lubricate power valve?

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santidreamer
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Lubricate power valve?

Post by santidreamer »

I am about to re-assmble my power valve after giving it a much needed clean.

Do I need to lubricate the rotating parts with say coopper grease?

Secondly the silicone gasket sealant I have says no need to use paper gackets, this sounds to good to be true.

Should I use paper gaskets and sealant on both sides?

I am not talking about doing away with the meatal head gasket.

Finally how do I determine if the piston needs replacing? The piston and cylinder have minor scratches which can be seen but not felt.

Sorry to ask such basic questions, but I am new to bike mechanics.

Thanks
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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

Some spots call for grease, most call for oil. I don't recall for sure which are which without looking at my manual.

Re: 'no paper gaskets'

You're referring to the base gasket I presume? Changing that thickness will effect port timing and engine compression. DO use the required gasket on the cylinder base. I apply RTV on both sides of that gasket mainly because that makes it much easier to remove and I have had no sealing problems with that approach.

Re: '..how do I determine'

Having no physical damage, measurement of the piston and bore will tell you if it is beyond its service limits. There are specifications for these measurements in the manual.

Lacking the proper tools to measure those parts (not many riders have bore guages) use a feeler guage to measure the piston-to-cylinder clearance. It gets close to personal preference here, but IF that measurement is even close to .010", the piston should have been replaced quite some time ago. That measurement does change with the type of piston you use..forged vs: cast. OEM pistons are cast, Wiseco's are forged. Cast pistons can run closer tolerances.

You didn't say what model. If you have an OEM piston in a 220, replace it no matter what it looks like, measures to, or regardless of any other reason you might come up with to put it back in. Do NOT use an OEM piston in a 220.

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santidreamer
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Post by santidreamer »

Just normal oil? I was worried it would burn and choke every thing up agian.

I was intending to use a cylinder head base gasket for the reasons you stated. The clutch does not disengage fully I was going to check out the basket for groves is it essential to have a paper gasket on the clucth casing?

I read an excellent article you wrote about this, saying shimming (which I do not know about) was important and the lever on the engine should move through 90 deg. (which I does not)

I have a workshop manual so best I print it out and read it, before asking any more questions :oops:

My bike is a DX200G series, detuned Jap dual sport bike with auto lube system, differernt cylinder and 28mm PE carb.

I am thinking of converting it to use a 32mm carb, the reed valve holder or inlet manifold (black rubber)will need to be changed and air box modified.

Do you know if a DX200E series (black rubber) inlet manifold accepting 32mm cab will fit my metal reed valve cage and fit my bike?

Thanks
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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

Some reading would be good.

The point of the following is not to say what all there is, but what I looked at. Anyone with corrections is welcome to speak up.

There is a KIPS explanation supplement in the front of the manual in addition to the internal references.

There is no lubrication information in the technical supplement for the KIPS that I see.

In the clutch section, grease is used on the advancer shaft lever (the segmented gear held by the LHT nut that drives the main shaft).

In the top-end section:

Apply 2-stroke engine oil to the following:

Sub-valve journals
Exhaust valve pinions
Valve Rod journals
Valve rod rack

Apply hi temp grease to the o-ring on the right valve rod.

Note that there is a change to that o-ring. It used to be called 'packing', and was NOT an o-ring, but a fibrous..well...packing. If you are re-assembling the KIPS, the 'packing' would likely need to be replaced (should be replaced anyway) and what you will get when you order that part is a modified o-ring. This is one:

Image

Re: 'essential...for clutch casing'

I would want one on the case, and on the cover. The case (where the oil fill plug fits) has some spacing issues for other parts (like the KIPS rod) that may well need that spacing. The cover (where the oil level sight glass is) has the clutch lever in it. That is also a 'spacing specific' situation.

I use gaskets. I have not put it together without gaskets to see what happens.

I know nothing about any DX series anything. Sudco has specs for the different Keihin carbs. Look there. The US distributed 'E' series 200 came with a 35mm small-body PWK with an air striker slide. The 220 33mm uses the same boot. A 32mm? I didn't bother trying to find out what that is, I don't know what it is or IF it is.

Keep in mind with whatever questions you do have that you should certainly include the model of your bike. Put it in your 'signature' accessed through your profile on this site. If you are not clear on what you have, a lot of responders will assume it's an 'H' 200. THAT will get you a lot of wrong information.
Last edited by canyncarvr on 12:18 pm Feb 10 2009, edited 1 time in total.

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santidreamer
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Post by santidreamer »

Thank you

This seems inline with what a mechanic has told me, use engine oil to lubricate KIPS assembly.

Bearing in mind the engine is water cooled there for not running massively over 100C grease rated to 250+C should be fine for the o ring

If paper gaskets were not needed why would they still be used, so daft question really.

I have got a head gasket set coming so will replace that packing ring.

My carb is a 28mm PE, so I am looking to put a bigger one on if I can get the bits to do it.

My (limited) understanding is the 32mm PWK was fitted to these bikes, best I be care before I part with any cash.

I read in a post that the clutch lever on the engine should move through 90 degrees, mine moves nothing like this far, did I read correctly?

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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: 'If paper gaskets were not needed why would they still be used, so daft question really.'

I don't follow that. Who said they weren't needed? I said spacing/alignment was an important issue..that they ARE needed. If you understood differently, or I indicated differently..we're both wrong!

The RH rod o-ring is not in any 'head gasket set' (? I presume you mean top-end set) I've ever purchased. Hhhmmm...I'll have to look through my leftovers, but I recall no such o-ring.

It IS my understanding that the oil injected bikes have considerably different boot sizes. Fire off a PM to allistair (search for his nick in the PM area of this board. He's in NZ). I think he has some experience re-fitting US-style carbs to injected bikes. I KNOW it's been a subject of discussion on this board in the past.

A PE is NOT a PWK. That's obvious, but clearly stated for the purpose of being, well....clear.

A repeat: IS your carb on the Sudco site? IF it is, just look at the measurements of the two carbs.

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Post by fuzzy »

http://www.sudco.com/Diagrams123/exppwk.gif

Assuming the pe's and pwk's have similar external dimentions they are not the same body. I would imagine an intake boot and airbox from a US model along w/ the 35mm pwk would fix you right up.
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santidreamer
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Post by santidreamer »

Agreed paper gaskets are needed and should be coated with sealant on both side upon fitting.

I think all my o rings are OK so just grease the one on the power valve rack.

I have checked out Sudco but no sizes for my carb on it, but good site and added tofavourites.

My carb says on it PE, it is alot smaller than a PWK of a KDX 250, I have a PE carb from a CRM 250 which is as near as dam it same size as the KDX 250 PWK.

I am hoping to purchase an air box and intake boot. Clearly I will needed to confirm inside diameters of both and that the inlet boot six bolt holes line up.

I have tried and failed to sent Allistair a personal messge, now I now the black rubber reed cage holder is called an 'inlet boot' I can do a search :grin:

Thank you both for you help.
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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

I had his nick wrong. A search for 'al*' got it, I sent him a PM asking him to take a look at this thread.

It's him or cfspawn (I think?) that are NZ riders familiar with the overseas KDX.

Stay tuned!

Spend some time with the search function. Here's one I found:

http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.ph ... +injection

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Post by alistair »

no thats not me.my kdx has the standard pwk 35 on it.you keep confusing me for some one else....and i have never pulled the kdx apart as it hasnt needed it.
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