Exhaust Collar?

tony_d123 · Post by **tony_d123** » 12:32 pm Dec 27 2008

When I bought my 2003 KDX220R it came with a spare exhaust. Just noticed today that this exhaust has a manifold collar for fixing to the barrel with studs. It looks identical to my standard exhaust apart from this collar and the end of the pipe (where it goes into the exhaust port is smooth has no grooves for o-rings.

I looked at the barrel and it has two threaded holes where studs could be fitted but I thought all 200/220's were fitted just with the o-rings and springs?

I am fed up with my standard exhaust leaking all the time (even with silicone) and was thinking about using this exhaust with studs to properly seal against the copper crush gasket. Can anyone shed any light on where this exhaust may have come from and any potential problems?

Post by **Indawoods** » 01:11 pm Dec 27 2008

Hmmm.... a pic would help.

tony_d123 · Post by **tony_d123** » 01:53 pm Dec 27 2008

tony_d123 · Post by **tony_d123** » 01:57 pm Dec 27 2008

Wondering whether this is an exhaust for a jap import SR as that is the only model I can't find a fiche for.

Makes me think the exhaust has been previously fitted (hence the stud holes) or it is possibly a SR barrel? If that is the case, why the different mounting? Is one engine rubber mounted and one rigid?

Post by **Indawoods** » 02:22 pm Dec 27 2008

That's really odd Tony... where are you located?

The other exhaust looks to be an SR model exhaust. Hard to tell from the pic but it resembles the exhaust I had on an old Yamaha DT 125 I had a few years ago... the sharp bend in the bell. Do you have an overall pic of that pipe?

tony_d123 · Post by **tony_d123** » 02:37 pm Dec 27 2008

I am in the UK, but my 220R is a Canadian model. We do get a few Jap import SR's here with the autolube and u/s down forks.
As I mentioned above, the pipe is identical, bends, brackets, welds etc apart from the header fixing. It may not look it in the pic as the pipes are not at exactly the same angle, but the sharp bend is not actually that sharp.

Post by **Indawoods** » 02:49 pm Dec 27 2008

All in all, I would say that if you want to use the o-ringed exhaust.... The main reason for exhaust leaks is due to inproper neck angle going into the cylinder. It is pretty easy to determine if this is so by cleaning the cylinder mating surface and the end of the pipe. Using India Ink or something similar, coat the end of the pipes mating surface and install the pipe. Wait a while until the ink dries, then remove the pipe.... if the cylinders mating surface does not have a ring all the way around or is faint in a certain area.... then the pipe end can be manipulated to fit properly with a vise and a pipe inserted in the end of the exhaust.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 03:15 pm Dec 27 2008

Re: '220 is a Canadian model...'

..which, as far as I thought I knew, was NOT a US model bike.

A 200 (later 'H' models) from Canada? That would have been imported from the US at some point in time, so it WOULD have been a US model.

There was certainly some distinction along those lines.

Maybe you have an SR cylinder..maybe you have an SR bike.

Something I don't think I know...I'm sure I know...the SR is different in quite a few ways from the US model..and you aren't likely to ever know how many!

On this forum there are threads going round-n-round about that: 'Is a US import.' 'No it's not, it's an SR' No, it's a US import. I just need a PN for the SPEEDO..'

..stuff like that.

Bearings are different, water pumps are different..just a lot of stuff ain't the same.

THAT said....resolve your pipe leak problem and you won't care, right?

Align your pipe. Get a couple of good-sized steel bars that will fit either in (probably the cylinder end) or over (probably the stinger side). With the two bars inserted and applying (not a whole lot) of pressure in the direction needed, you can make your pipe fit much better than it likely does now.

Use your silencer as a guide (considering that IT isn't beat up). If you still have the stock silencer around..use that as as guide. It's not too likely to be wonky 'cuz it's tough..steel for one, not aluminum.

Start: Put your pipe in the cylinder, hold it with the springs. It should be square into the cylinder..and you can SEE that by simply looking at the first weld on the head-pipe and comparing it to the cylinder. You should be able to move the pipe on any 'line' (180º apart) and feel the end of the pipe clunk/snick/seat squarely into the cylinder. If not, look for where on the frame or whatever the pipe is getting hung up. Tweak it with your two bar tools to clear that up..so that your pipe DOES fit square in the cylinder.

Now...at least hold the silencer to the bike as it would be mounted. Note how the stinger and the silencer probably don't line up. Again, using your two pipe alignment tools..bend the pipe so it DOES line up.

When you're done, the pipe will still fit square to the cylinder, both mounting tabs will be easily accessible (no bending, tweaking, twisting of anything) and if (this for future reference or maybe an aftermarket piper) you're running a -30 pipe (larger diameter bell of the two FmF pipes), the pipe will not be touching the RH rad shroud.

If you have a decent vise (6-8" firmly attached to something), holding the pipe by one or other of the hangers may be helpful.

I've done all this..a few times. Generally when I am fed up with my...exhaust leaking all the time (even with silicone).

Of course...the teeny catch is I've done this with **edit courtesy of Mr. Wibbens. I was thinking of the spark arrestor cannister..which I've tweaked on some, too) aluminum** aftermarket pipes. It will work with the OEM pipe, too.

Once the alignment is at the least somewhat improved, silicone properly applied WILL keep that joint from leaking.

Which, by the way...I do notice nothing in the way of silicone on the joint of your pipe. Where is it? The 'properly applied' part will have a good lot of silicone bead when you take the pipe out. You either cleaned it particularly well (taking care to leave some carbon between the rings) or the 'properly applied' part wasn't.

**edit**I generally forget the 'e' and no 'e'...for anyone that already read it and know different...now it IS different!

tony_d123 · Post by **tony_d123** » 03:16 pm Dec 27 2008

Thanks for the input. I think I will try fitting the flanged pipe tomorrow and see what it runs like. If it is an SR pipe it should be a bit quieter anyway which is a big plus over here.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 03:31 pm Dec 27 2008

A btw....but looking at the pipe pics...

The stud pipe looks to have a quite different bend to it from the other. You have tried an initial fitment, I presume? It does fit OK?

That it 'came with' wouldn't mean anything necessarily. Maybe the seller just wanted to clean out his garage. Heck...maybe HE (she/they/it) thought it was the original pipe, too............

N8Strine · Post by **N8Strine** » 09:57 pm Dec 27 2008

Im pretty sure my exhaust has those two threaded holes as well.

N8Strine · Post by **N8Strine** » 10:10 pm Dec 27 2008

Don't all KDX's cylinders have these two threaded holes?

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 11:09 pm Dec 27 2008

I wasn't so much referring to the threaded holes as I was the bolt-on pipe being a 'spare'.

Re: 'Don't all....?'

Nope.

It appears the bosses are there...but not the holes. Let's find out if those really ARE bosses cast for studs.

Hey N8....drill a couple holes in your cylinder and see if it works!!

tony_d123 · Post by **tony_d123** » 12:46 pm Dec 28 2008

canyncarvr wrote:The stud pipe looks to have a quite different bend to it from the other. You have tried an initial fitment, I presume? It does fit OK?

It is exactly the same from the flange onwards. Tried it today and it fits perfectly.

tony_d123 · Post by **tony_d123** » 01:01 pm Dec 28 2008

canyncarvr wrote:Maybe you have an SR cylinder..maybe you have an SR bike.

Give me some credit

It is a 2002 KDX220R (A9) although it was registered here in 2003. It has a Canadian VIN plate so I suspect it was intended for the Canadian market but redirected to the UK, there are few Canadian badged KDX's here.
Definitely not an SR model, although I obviously don't know if the cylinder has been changed at some point.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 01:59 pm Dec 28 2008

Didn't mean to step on any toes. Apologies.

Re: 'As I mentioned above, the pipe is identical, bends, brackets, welds etc apart from the header fixing.'

I did miss that one altogether.

Can't know what the 'other guy' knows from a post or two. I do know questions have come up that a good number of folks have gone round and round and round over...only to find out the guaranteed know-it-for sure US bike (or 'R' in the case of the 220).....ain't.

What IS supposed to seal the bolt-up pipe? Pipes with collar affairs like that generally fit over a piece with o-rings on IT...like my Banshee fer example. A male end going against the flow is kind'a stupid.

tony_d123 · Post by **tony_d123** » 01:05 pm Dec 29 2008

It crushes a copper or aluminium gasket against the barrel in same position as the standard crush washer. I have some for my road bike that are same diameter and about 5mm thick before crushing, so will try one of these, should pull up nice and tight for a good seal.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 01:17 pm Dec 29 2008

Doesn't appear you got much info from the DRN crowd.....

I mean...compared to the tons of most excellent facts from HERE!

Post by **Mr. Wibbens** » 01:35 pm Dec 29 2008

are you trolling DRN?

tony_d123 · Post by **tony_d123** » 05:54 pm Dec 29 2008

canyncarvr wrote:Doesn't appear you got much info from the DRN crowd.....
I mean...compared to the tons of most excellent facts from HERE!

Yes, I was spreading my bets but I know where to come for advice in the future.

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Exhaust Collar?

Exhaust Collar?