Noob question, 200 or 220?

bcdonyo · Post by **bcdonyo** » 02:19 am Dec 05 2008

Hello all,

First off, I've been lurking here for a while now, and have learned just enough to get myself totally confused on which KDX would suit my needs best. I'm a seasoned trail rider who's been riding big exotic thumpers for years, and now I feel the need to replace the WR250 2 stroke that I sold a few years ago with another 2 smoker.

I have a dual sported Husaberg 650 which I love for open desert stuff and a few other older thumpers (a couple 610 Husky's & an ATK 605) which don't excite me to much when I go on slower technical rides. (I was missing my 250 in Moab last year). My buddies all have newer Japanese 450 MX bikes, which I've ridden and like even less than my bikes for trail riding. They all say I'm crazy for considering a KDX, and I should get a newer YZ250 or KTM300.

The thing is, I used to ride my pop's KLX300 years ago on some more technical rides and loved the way it handled. I have a 29" inseam and pretty short arms for someone who's 5'9" and it just seemed to "fit" me. The ridiculously soft suspension admittedly sucked, and it was way underpowered, but I felt so confident in it's handling and ergonomics that it made me always want to try a modified KDX. I did ride my bosses wife's stock 200 at Dumont dunes a few years ago, but my 300lb. weight just made it feel like an 80cc bike in the soft steep dunes. I do need a big bike there.

Well, now I've had weight loss surgery, and am loosing weight pretty steadily and think it would be fun to get a real "trail" bike again. I intend to do all the usual engine and suspension mods, but would like to know which bike the KDX crowd considers the best to modify for a heavier experienced older guy (40), who still likes to ride rather aggressively?

Thanks in advance for any advice

-Don

Post by **Indawoods** » 06:39 am Dec 05 2008

I like my 2hunny... Great all around dirt bike. Others like the 220 for the stump pulling lowend. I think the 200 leans towards a traditional MX compared to the 220.

kawagumby · Post by **kawagumby** » 12:01 pm Dec 05 2008

I've put a lot of time on both 200's and 220's. If you ride a lot of really slow technical trails with a need to loft the wheel a lot, or tight trails that have instant get-go uphills, the 220 will have some advantage. Otherwise, you can't go wrong with either model.

bcdonyo · Post by **bcdonyo** » 01:23 pm Dec 05 2008

Thanks for the replies. It looks like the RB carb and head mods are a must, but what I really would like to know is, would a 200 or 220 be a better candidate for a 225cc big bore upgrade. From what I've read the 240cc looses it's revability.

I had a Noleen racing (Ohlins) 360cc big bore top end on my '98 WR250, and it had awsome low end grunt but signed off too early. There are several 200 and 220s for sale right now and I'm almost ready to buy a bike but don't want to get the wrong one. Maybe I should call RB and Eric Gorr? Thanks again.

Here's my old "woods" bike that I miss on those tighter rides. I think what the KDX will lack in power will be offset by it's awsome handling and that's what Im looking for.

Post by **fuzzy** » 02:09 pm Dec 05 2008

SWEET ride! 360?!?! Here's Mine

To do a 225 start w/ a 200....EG will do the head. RB Carb. DO a KX fork conversion. Spring for your weight. A 225 will have plenty of power!!

For 'technical stuff' as you know that WR tranny is what makes a ton of difference so that nixes the YZ250. KTM/Euros are of course the only wide smokers left.

bcdonyo · Post by **bcdonyo** » 04:52 pm Dec 05 2008

Thanks fuzzy. Nice looking WR. I had a 1989 YZ250WR back in the day that I loved. I am partial to Yamaha's and kind of kick myself for letting the WR go. It wasn't very rider friendly, and none of my buddies could start it. It really needed a longer kickstarter to overcome the crazy compression the 360 piston had. Plus parts aren't available from Ohlins for that kit any more. I sold the last spare piston and ring set to a guy in Sweden, who had been looking for parts for months.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showth ... ohlins+360

Pretty sure I'm gonna grab a clean 200 in the next few weeks and start the transformation. This is a great site, and if it weren't for some of the info here, I probably would be looking at KTMs, and some kind of loan to make up the $ difference. Thanks.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 07:42 pm Dec 05 2008

Re: '..would a 200 or 220 be a better candidate for a 225cc big bore upgrade.'

The answer was referred to but not specifically answered. The 220 doesn't do 225, the 200 does.

2-hunny riders generally like their bikes..as do 220 riders. KGumby summed the choices up about as good as they can be..and in one sentence to boot!

It took quite awhile to get my 200 to the point I didn't swap pipes: -35 (torque profile) for woods riding and the -30 (rev profile) for less technical 'open' riding. I don't mess with that anymore...it works well in either and both situations.

I think this is generally true: You can make a 200 run closer to a 220 on the bottom than you can make a 220 run closer to a 200 on top.

The 225 over-bore? Dunno about that. Never ridden one.

Good hunting!! Bag a clean bike for a song, update/replace some stuff...have a LOT of fun!!

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » 08:23 pm Dec 05 2008

You really can't loose with either if you like easy-to-control power. I rode Tom Moody's 200 which had all the power goodies - RB stuff, pipe, reeds, etc - and my 220 had all the power goodies as well, and to tell you the truth there wasn't a whole lot of difference. Indeed, the 220 had a little more ummph right off the throttle, the 200 a smidge more on top.

I would count on bolting on an aftermarket pipe and having Ron Black modify the carb and head - you'll want the power that comes from that.

Before I moved into a different bike I contacted Eric Gorr about what I had in my 220 and what he might be able to do with porting or turning it into a 225. He replied that what I had was about the limit of what I could get out of a 220. He also stated that a 200's transfer ports enabled him to make more of a difference with porting and that a 200 responded better when modifying to a 225. And how about getting a 200 jug and modifying to a 225? Better than a 220-to-225 . . . so if you KNOW that you're gonna end up with a 225 go with a 200.

BUT . . . if you already know you're going to need a 225, why not consider a larger displacement 2-stroke?

Post by **Mr. Wibbens** » 08:51 pm Dec 05 2008

Don't overlook the "E" series!

Whole lot more grunt!

bcdonyo · Post by **bcdonyo** » 09:37 pm Dec 05 2008

Great input guys, this site is a class act.

BUT . . . if you already know you're going to need a 225, why not consider a larger displacement 2-stroke?

I have a lot of seat time in on a slightly modified KLX300 and fell in love with it's sharp handling and compact size. I often chose to ride it over my WR250 on many slower technical rides even though the stock suspension was dismal. I guess I want a bike that handles like the KLX but also has decent suspension and more power.

After hearing the given advice, my plan is to find a clean low mileage 200, do the pipe and jetting and ride it a little while collecting the parts for the fork conversion. Get the suspension done and then maybe next year go through the engine.

I just want to end up with a bike that is fun and easy to ride. It would also be a good bike to coax some of my less experienced friends to ride with us when visiting. Most novices are intimidated by bikes they've never heard of with six hundred something ccs and a weird left kickers.

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » 10:54 am Dec 06 2008

Sounds like a plan! KDX is king when it comes to "fun and easy", no doubt.

marrk_us · Post by **marrk_us** » 12:45 pm Dec 06 2008

(I guess I want a bike that handles like the KLX but also has decent suspension and more power. )

When my 90 kdx200 was stolen years ago I replaced it with a new 98 klx300 (with the hopes my kdx would be recovered and i'd have both a 2 and 4 stoke to ride, but it never was). I did the initial suspension break in ride of approx 35 miles then pulled the shock and forks and dropped them off with Jeff Slavens for a complete going over, springs, valving for the rocky mountain woods. Just lucky to have a top notch suspension guy local who rides the same trails, he always does a great job on all my bikes.

Once the supension was up to snuff and with the addition of an exhaust and other goodies I was very pleased with the bike. Good power, great handling in the rocks and woods. This was about the last of the good four strokes that used the old style pistons, with real skirts, that don't need rebuilt nearly as often as the new stuff. Fresh engine oil, valve adjusts and your good for years. A very good bike. I've since sold the klx to a friend but still get to ride it and it's held up well over the years.

Since my kdx was never recovered I bought a 98 kdx200 rode it for a few years and then bought a 220 top end and converted it. To compare the 3 bikes i'd say they all handle equally well once the suspension is professionally done. The kdx's steering feels slightly quicker and lighter especially when a kx fork is swapped in. The klx300 to me seems to give slightly better feedback, probably due to the extra weight on the front due to the heavier engine.

Engine wise the klx is a four stoke that wants to be a 2 stoke. Decent torque but it will rev out nicely. The 200 has a classic 2 stroke feel, revs nicely and i love the feel when the power valves kick in, it requires that you pay attention! The 220 engine really surprised me, it has bottom end like my old klx, great for tight woods and is great fun for wheelies! It doesn't rev anything like when it was a 200, but is a perfect blend if you can't decide between the 2 stroke or 4 stroke.

Don't know if this helps, but I'd say you really can't go wrong with any of these bikes. It's a shame Kawa doen't make them anymore. 3 bikes, 3 different personalities.

Post by **fuzzy** » 10:43 am Dec 07 2008

BTW, you probably had one of what must've been 50 '98 WR250's that made it into the US...LOL. I'd love to find a mint stock one in a barn somewhere...LOL.

bcdonyo · Post by **bcdonyo** » 06:03 pm Dec 07 2008

BTW, you probably had one of what must've been 50 '98 WR250's that made it into the US...LOL. I'd love to find a mint stock one in a barn somewhere...LOL.

Sorry if I'm getting a little off topic but here's a few pics of my old WR's

1989 YZ250wr, the first of the WRs which were pretty much just YZs with wide trannys. I traded an FZ600 streetbike for it back in the day. It had a super pipey Pro Circuit built engine.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c231/ ... /IMG-3.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2375/213 ... fb.jpg?v=0

Here's the '98 WR when new-never started. I started talking to a guy at the 1997 LA motorcycle show and he told me he imported them from Canada. I met him the next day at a burger stand and bought it out of the back of his van. He was real cool and imported several at a time. He already had it titled and registered so I didn't have to hassle with the import crap. It was a great bike. Basically a '98 YZ250 with the wide ratio tranny, kickstand, 18" rear wheel, lighting coil and slightly softer suspension and a Canadian VIN #. I wish Yamaha still sold this bike today, the Euros are the only ones and they're a little out of my price range.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c231/ ... G_0001.jpg

Post by **fuzzy** » 09:53 am Dec 08 2008

No kidding. I rode a 450F for the first time over the weekend and hated it. THe bike the motor was attached to (02 CRF) was incredible, but I hated that motor.

bcdonyo · Post by **bcdonyo** » 07:35 pm Jul 25 2009

The board's seemed kinda slow so I thought I'd rehash my old original post. OK I finally did it. Picked up a super clean low hour '05 200 a few weeks ago. It's pretty stock but came with a skid plate, plastic frame and fork guards, a Kouba link and best of all a BD kit and a plate.

Unfortunately the stinkin Californication of Nevada meant the DMV wouldn't honor the fact that the bike was already plated.

So I got me an AZ plate!

NV DMV

The bike is almost like new. I've put more wear and tear on it in the five little rides I've taken it on than the PO. I did pay a premium for it but it was local and UH HUM plated.

I actually bought a set of KX250 forks from a board member (thanks Dave) locally for 100 bucks with applied triples months ago anticipating getting a KDX. Got a front wheel with a nice rotor and tire for 100, and a few more bucks for the axle/spacers/nut and just for kicks a cheap 2000 KX 500 triple clamp.

So far I like the little bike a lot, but I'm still way too heavy for the the stock suspension. Can't wait to transform it into what I want.

My plans are:

Phase I- KX front end swap including new springs and valving (Race Tech)plus a shock re-do. Pro Circuit pipe and silencer+ proper jetting. Rear disc guard/ radiator guards and better frame guards. Better skid plate. Real hand guards. Scotts stabilizer mount. IMS pegs. Ride the crap out of it this season.

Phase II) Next season. EG 225 kit/porting etc. RB carb mods. Reed cage. Stator upgrade. And hopefully by then I will have ruined the ugly green plastic enough to warrant a color change. Maybe a bigger tank if needed.

Thanks to you guys for your input and I'm glad I joined the cub, even though most my riding buddies think I'm nuts.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 09:47 pm Jul 25 2009

Whoa! What's up front? I don't know my Chebby's...a '65? '66? Called 'em Carryalls or sumthin like that?

bcdonyo · Post by **bcdonyo** » 12:07 am Jul 26 2009

canyncarvr wrote:Whoa! What's up front? I don't know my Chebby's...a '65? '66? Called 'em Carryalls or sumthin like that?

Carryall Suburban, it's a '66. Needs work like everything I own, but the AC works!

zz3gmc · Post by **zz3gmc** » 01:29 am Jul 26 2009

Just found this thread. Im also a big fan of the Yamaha WR250s. I raced my 97 for 2 seasons. It is definitely on my top 10 list, probably #1! I wish I could have gotten a hold of one of the Canadian WRs! I switched to YZ250s then to KX250s. Sorry to go off topic.

With YZ graphics and carbon fiber/kevlar tank

Post by **fuzzy** » 10:40 am Jul 26 2009

NICE!

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Noob question, 200 or 220?

Noob question, 200 or 220?