Which Dual sport? - Spoiled by my KDX

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Ogre
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Which Dual sport? - Spoiled by my KDX

Post by Ogre »

My KDX220 has me very spoiled.
I love its light weight and bottom weighted power spread.
Its instant throttle response ain't half bad either.

I have tried the DRZ400 (HEAVY and under geared) and the KLX250S (gutless below 7000 rpm both modded & un modded)
I have not tried the WRR 250 yet, but suspect the bottom end and weight wont impress me, but I may be wrong.

In my area you really need to run 65 on the road and run it for 15+ miles at a wack, 60+ miles overall round trip between ride areas.
Though my KDX is plated and fine for short hops, it is not the bike for that task.

Is there a dual sport bike that has decent bottom end, is not revving its brains out at 65, and does not feel like a tank?

Do I have to go the KTM 450 EXC or Husky TE310 route?
Am I missing a bike in the mix I am looking at?
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Post by KarlP »

"Is there a dual sport bike that has decent bottom end, is not revving its brains out at 65, and does not feel like a tank?"

Maybe not.

I tried a guys WR250(F). It reminded me of my old XR400. Not that there is anything wrong with that....... :wink:

KTM should do the job. $8K? Still won't be the KDX.

How about a small truck or a trailer?

How about you start cutting some new trail to get to your riding areas?
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Post by Ogre »

Hey Karl,

I believe the WR-F and the WR-R are quite different animals.
A plated WR-F (or an XR400) might actually fit the bill, but that's becoming very hard to pull off.
Being able to insure the bike is also a requirement so I can use it on the road without problems in Georgia and other states that require insurance.

I have the truck and trailer thing but there are tons of other reasons for wanting a proper dual sport that the KDX just does not fill well.
Its just every bike I try I cant help but compare to the KDX and they have fallen too short for me to justify the switch.
Like I said its spoiled me.
Oh and "keep the KDX and get x" is NOT an option per Ogrespouse.

Yea $8K new is not really appealing is it.
Getting a plated used KTM for $3-5K though is an option.
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Post by marrk_us »

First off let me say i'm older (47) and have tried many ways to have a real dual purpose, including my first 1977 Yamaha DT175, 78 DT250, plated 86 TT350, plated 85 XR350, Suzuki DR350, DRZ400, etc.

I think the best of both worlds dual purpose may be a myth. Either you end up with a converted 'real' off road bike thats not practical for anything over a 5 mile ride to the trail head (lack of tank range, no rear wheel cush drive and the inherent knowledge of the damage that WILL eventually be done to you transmission over time on the highway, lack of real highway power unless you go big displacement and big weight)

OR

You buy a dual purpose from the factory and you get the features you need to survive the street part but you also get a steel gas tank (hard on the knees), a battery, turn signals, DOT head light, extra wiring, keyed and lockable steering, the rear wheel cush drive to ensure your transmission lasts, all of which adds weight and those deadly DOT tires which IMO are good for neither street or dirt riding. And anything under 400cc really is just barely enough for the street and anything over transforms into the Exxon Valdez in the dirt.

It'd be nice to have it both ways, but i don't think that bike exists. The closest i came consisted of having my kdx for real off roading and an 87 xl600 for the trip to work and weekend fireroad outings. The trip to work was 5 miles of smooth fire roads and 5 miles of blacktop. The wheelies were a blast and it still felt like a big dirt bike. But i'd never dream of heading for any real trails on it. When it came time for that nothing beats my kdx's. Luckily it's only half a mile down a dirt road to the trails.

I think the best solution is still a trailer and KDX. At least after riding the xl600 all week the KDX seems like it's lost 40lbs in comparision, and i spent $800 for it, not many thousands for something that's not great on any terrain.
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Post by fuzzy »

Getting a plated used KTM for $3-5K though is an option.
probably the best one since you don't want to trailer.
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Post by kawagumby »

I own a WR250R. I ride it on "nearly" all the trails I take my KDX220 on. It is heavier (nearly 300 lbs full fuel, but carries the weight very low. It does not have a lot of punch off-bottom, but has good torque in the midrange and up region. The low-end power does build significantly with break-in - it is critical as to how you do it. It takes a somewhat different riding style (heavy 125 if you can imagine that) but is easy on the body in rough stuff that a full mx bike, even my modified KDX can beat me up on. The rear shock comes under rebound-damped but with proper setup it works fairly well. This bike replaced a DRZ400s that I rode for two years - I never enjoyed the DRZ and love the WRR. Much bigger fun factor. I take it on single track I would avoid with the DRZ.
The forks are std large diameter kyb, with all the adjustments. The rear shock is some yamaha subsidiary mickey-mouse unit - but no-one has had one fail yet that I know of. They can be revalved. It feels heavy off of jumps and you need to be in your game when you push it. It will push tho' better than most would imagine.
The setup, meaning rear sag, and all the damping adjustments, rear tire size (keep the diameter small when you go to full knobby), fork height in the clamps, all are extremely critical for a good off-road experience - but all are easy to do. The factory damping rates and spring are a compromise for street and two-up riding - but are usable.

Street-wise, it is a pistol. It is pure fun and with the 5th and 6th gears being overdriven, will cruise all day at 70-75 no sweat. I can't believe the number of guys who use it for a daily commuter. And maintenance? You check the valves at 25000 miles! It is one-fourth of an R! engine design. Very cool fuel injection...

The engine puts out about 7 ponies more than the KLR250 and a typical dyno shows about 25-27 stock. Fit and finish is first rate.

The brakes are stellar, unlike the DRZ, and in that respect it feels like a typical off-roader. The tranny and clutch are extremely smooth and have taken all the abuse I give it, even on tight single track with stock gearing. First gear is like the KDX, a granny gear. Some guys gear it lower, but I can't see that - all it does is negate first gear for a little tighter gear run.

Dirt bike mag called it a beginners' bike in thier new bike buyers special addition, but I think for a true "dual purpose" bike, meaning not a plated dirt bike that vibrates and is uncomfortable on the street, it is NOT a beginner's bike, but a very capable machine for what it is intended. BTW, my many decades of dirt experience has caused me to laugh at motorcycle magazines opinions. :butthead: I doubt that any of the "journalist" weenies had a clue about setting them up for off-road. It took me about an hour to dial it in and I published those settings on thumpertalk dual-sport forum (I'm SPUTTER there).

You want big throttle wheelie power? forget it. You want enough power to pull it up over obstacles a very low speeds - you need some skills to help it. Pull it up at higher speeds while approaching mid and in midrange? no sweat!

No one I know of has regretted buying this bike, and many come off of much larger KTM dual sports and DRZ's (like me). :grin: I enjoy coming up on people with the super quiet exhaust, then passing them with the turn-signals bouncing all around.... beep beep.

BTW, I know of one fellow who has an 07 WR250F, and actually prefers his WR250R off-road. Go figure. One thing about a plated dirt bike - you will not be able to gear it for both on and off-road concurrently like the WR250R.
1994 KDX200, Beta 200rr, yz125, yz250, kx100 modded for adult, gasgas contact 250.
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Post by Ogre »

Kawagumby,

This is encouraging.
I still fear that the WRR may be too rev happy for my taste, but I will try one.
Yea, I think I understand the heavy 125 reference as the KLX was similar.
I felt like any trail I could ride my KDX on the KIPS on I could ride the KLX in its power band and it would be fun.
Honestly the KLX250 was fine on the road and would work for dirt road use as well, once wound up it made enough power and was smooth.

I just did not feel like I could ever get it to pop over anything without reving it up more than conditions (and my skills) would allow.
I do have a trials background and don't need gobs of power, but the KLX really felt dead on the bottom.

I assumed the WRR has more top end than the KLX, but that's not where I felt the bike was lacking.
Have your ridden the KLX, does the WRR also have more bottom and mid range?

BTW what RPM do you consider mid range?

The 300 lbs also has kept me away as thats near what the DRZ is and it felt like a slightly smaller KLR to me (not what I like for the really tight stuff :wink: ).
The KLX felt noticeably heavier than my KDX, but nothing like a DRZ.
Though from your account the WRR does not "feel" like the DRZ either.
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Post by kawagumby »

You might want to pop in and visit the thumpertalk yamaha dual-sport forum, there's a lot of different perspectives there.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=384

About the power - when I first rode it, I felt it was weak off bottom, but as I mentioned earlier, the low end grew as I put hours on it. I only rev out the thing (11K or so) on wide open fireroads or a track, the rest of the time I'm pretty much in grunt mode - I'm guessing 1000 to 4000 rpm. I ride it on some steep single-track stuff and it continues to surprise. I'll ride my KDX and think about what a pig my WRR is, then I get back on the WRR and think, this thing isn't a pig at all! It just doesn't want to wheelie much - but keeping closer to 2-3K rpm by gear selection seems to negate any real torque issues. It just takes a different rider approach and proper suspension setup to allow it to easily wheelie over obstacles. Stock, it is setup like a stinkbug and is nearly impossible to wheelie, once that is changed it is much easier to loft the front without clutching or jerking up on the bars.

Weight-wise it feels about like the WR426 I had, only a little bit easier because of the low cg. The WR426 was much lighter than the DRZ. A DRZ is about 35-40 lbs heavier than the WRR but feels more like 80 lbs heavier to me.

I haven't ridden a KLX250, but those who have say the bikes are not in the same category off-road wise, mostly due to power and some handling. Again, you can find comparisons by those who own them on TT. All the reviews I've seen say the KLR has MORE initial low-end than the WRR, but then the power fades quickly. Supposedly the KLR suspension is not as good too, but I only repeat what others have said. Not allowed in a court of law....

I ride a lot of single track, and the WRR is, of course, a heavier bike...but it doesn't take a lot of rider input to make it work - you just tend to ride it a little slower because of the momentum factor. The fact that it is still fun to ride on a tight single track tells the story I think. I currently run a dunlop rally raid front tire which is a DOT but totally off-road biased tire. On the rear I run a full knobby with the "not for highway use" ground off.
Yes, I'm a scofflaw in that respect. :mrgreen:

I repeat though, setup is critical with the underdamped rear shock and factory settings.

One thing also to consider is the fuel injection. It's possible not all KLR's are equal due to carb jetting, altitude, humidity, etc... while the WRR makes snappy power in nearly all conditions due to being fuel injected.
1994 KDX200, Beta 200rr, yz125, yz250, kx100 modded for adult, gasgas contact 250.
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Post by fuzzy »

How are those tires at 75 on the highway?
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Post by kawagumby »

I rarely hit 75 with full knobbies - I haven't even put balancing weights on, I do have rimlocks, and it still doesn't hop or vibrate at any speed! Lucked out I guess. If you are a commuter, full knobbies would be foolish IMO - there are better choices out there for traffic situations.
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Post by fuzzy »

Indeeed.....Just curious.
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Post by rdsrf »

Does the WR250R come with kick and electric start, or just electric like many of the modern dual sports?

That 25,000 valve adjustment interval sounds very appealing!
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Post by kawagumby »

Electric only - this is a complete new engine design - no plug where one might retrofit like on a DRZ.
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Post by Mr. Wibbens »

My DR ran fine at 75 mph on DOT knobb's

I always balanced mine though

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Gonna miss the old girl :cry:
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Post by KDXmike »

I don't think any dual sport will be as good as the KDX.

I own an '07 KLX250 and have been happy with it. I use it as a commuter bike primarily due to the gas mileage. I'm getting over 70mpg with it. It also has helped me scope out new riding areas. There are plenty of mods that will wake the bike up but even bone stock I've had alot of off road fun on the bike. I cruise the highway at 65-70mph all the time on my 60 mile round trip commute. I've had no issues with nobbies on the highway.

Overall the bike has performed better than I expected and I've attempted some pretty aggressive things with it off road.

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Post by m0rie »

>|QBB<[/url]
Mr. Wibbens wrote:My DR ran fine at 75 mph on DOT knobb's

I always balanced mine though

Image

Gonna miss the old girl :cry:
Did you replace the DR with something else?
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Post by Mr. Wibbens »

>|QBB|QBB<[/url]
Mr. Wibbens wrote:My DR ran fine at 75 mph on DOT knobb's

I always balanced mine though

Image

Gonna miss the old girl :cry:
Did you replace the DR with something else?[/quote]

Yeah, some cash....
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Post by Indawoods »

:lol:

I absolutely love the old school 4 strokes.... :supz:
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Post by rdsrf »

>|<>QBB<
Indawoods wrote::lol:

I absolutely love the old school 4 strokes.... :supz:

Yes! The big air cooled singles are great bikes......I really like the look of no radiators.
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