EFM autoclutch or transmission problem ?

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JoKDX220r
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EFM autoclutch or transmission problem ?

Post by JoKDX220r »

Hi,
I have a KDX220r 2003 with the EFM autoclutch for about 2 months now.
Last week I noticed something strange when I was on the street, I can't get to 3rd gear.. after 5-6 seconds of waiting rpm get lower then I was able to shift to 3rd.. same thing for the 4th, 5th etc..

I change my transmission oil every 4 hours, I was half way to my other oil change when it first happened.
I changed my oil yesterday but when I tried it today it just do it again..

I only have like 1km on street to do to get in my trails, but I have to make it "fast"...

I wonder if anybody here ever get a problem like that with the autoclutch, it is a setting problem because of the "high rpm" or it is the transmission ?

Thank you.
Last edited by JoKDX220r on 10:58 am Oct 16 2010, edited 2 times in total.
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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

I don't have an autoclutch, for starters.

But...if you had NO clutch at all..a direct gearset between the crank and the transmission, you could still shift quite easily, the trans being a constant mesh type.

The most common reason for the KDX to have shifting problems: A bent (interfering with something) or loose shift lever.

You might take a look at that. Maybe it's something simple.

KDXs generally don't have drum/fork troubles. It's happened...but not a lot.


Good luck.

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Post by JoKDX220r »

I've check my shift lever yesterday and everything was fine, the lever move freely up and down, and is tight enough.
I just notice a small play from the shaft (part 13161 from Gear Change Mechanism drawing) I can pull it and push it just a bit, so I wonder if its normal ?

Thank you!
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Post by lemmy »

I have the stock clutch and I am having the exact same problem with mine. I can't get it in to 3rd or higher very easily. I almost have better luck with not using the clutch. My bike shifted fine last week on a ride but toward the end of the ride I let a friend ride it that has only ridden a dirt bike with auto clutches. He got confused and thought you could shift down without the clutch instead of shift up so I think he shifted down once without the clutch. So it is possilbe something got bent. However after that I was on a short fast section where I got it up to 4th or 5th and didn't have any problem. I changed the tranny fluid when i got home and put in 0.8L of regular valvoline 10W30 (cause that was all I had). I purchased the Motul 10W30 tranny fluid that was in there before hoping that might help, but I am not getting my hopes up.
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Post by lemmy »

Ok, I found out my problem was the shift lever hitting the engine case. Bent it out a bit and its shifting good again.
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Post by Colorado Mike »

JoKDX, how much is "just a bit" of play on that shaft? My bike is probably the worst shifting bike I ever had except for a Bultaco, but it usually will go through the gears. I just hate how it likes to go into neutral at critical moments. Mine gets almost unshiftable if I try to go 3-4 rides between oil changes, which I don't understand at all.

Our bikes are within a year of each other, so I'm wondering if they used some crappy springs or sumpin in later years. I might have to tear into that this winter. Let us know what you find.
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Re: EFM autoclutch or transmission problem ?

Post by kdxquebec »

>|<>QBB<
JoKDX220r wrote:Last week I noticed something strange , I can't get to 3rd gear.. after 5-6 seconds of waiting rpm get lower then I was able to shift to 3rd.. .
It happened to me last week for the second time within 3 last months...

:shock: STRANGE
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Post by skipro3 »

I can just about guarantee your shifting problem isn't due to the auto clutch. The way the auto clutch works is that the RPM's must drop to almost idle before the clutch disengages and starts to slip. During normal up shifting, its just like shifting a clutched bike that isn't using the clutch to shift but instead matching RPM's to sync the gears in and out.

To test this, put the clutch in emergency mode. If you don't know what that is, check with Garry. Basically, it's taking one of the screws and putting in the spare threaded hole and locking the clutch up . This is so, if you loose or break your kick starter, you can bump start the bike and ride it like you broke the clutch cable in a standard clutch bike.
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Post by skipro3 »

Also, does your bike shift into the taller gears when motor is off? Put the bike on a stand and rotate the rear tire while shifting tough the gears. Should shift fairly easy. Then start the bike and try it again while on the stand. Let me know what happens.
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Post by JoKDX220r »

At the moment the engine is off the bike, I'll soon split the case to see if there's damages on the transmission...
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Post by canyncarvr »

What are the chances this is a governor rod problem? This being a 220..was the OEM piston recently replaced..maybe the governor rod broken..and the piece is stuck in the shifting mechanism?

That would be serendipity talkin'................

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Post by JoKDX220r »

The drive shaft ball bearing have a small play (A)...

Referring to the manual :
Image

With small wear on the return spring pin.
That's all at the moment.
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Post by Mr. Wibbens »

>|QBB<[/url]
JoKDX220r wrote:The drive shaft ball bearing have a small play (A)...

Referring to the manual :
Image

With small wear on the return spring pin.
That's all at the moment.
Huh?

What?

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JoKDX220r
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Post by JoKDX220r »

>|QBB|QBB<[/url]
JoKDX220r wrote:The drive shaft ball bearing have a small play (A)...

Referring to the manual :
Image

With small wear on the return spring pin.
That's all at the moment.

Image
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: '..to see if there's damages on the transmission.'

What we have is failure to communicate. :blink:

This thread started with a shifting problem and the EFM autoclutch suspect.

Now, out of the blue, the engine is apart and the subject is axial play on some bearing, the output shaft I guess.

Re: '..with small wear on the return spring.'

The kicker mechanism spring? I didn't look it up, but the 92150 part you have circled has to do with that mechanism, I think.

I have no idea what the progression was that got the engine in pieces talking about the kicker return spring.

Good luck with it, though.

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Post by JoKDX220r »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:
What we have is failure to communicate. :blink:
I think you're right about this part,
But "why" I did split my engine is to check all part that goes from the primary gear to the sprocket to find what's wrong...

The 92150 is part of the gear change mechanism as "Bolt, Return spring"
And 610 is the only bearing with axial play wich can be caused by EFM autocluch.. I'm not 100% sure about it but with the spring washers bug who know.. :?
I've "play" alot with the tranny making gears changes and I think the bearing play can be enough to jam gears when trying to change from 2nd to 3rd, 4th etc..
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Post by canyncarvr »

You are right. I wasn't. You made me look it up. :wink:

92150 is part of the crankcase drawing, screwed in from the outside of the RH case half. It doesn't really do anything..just sits there. As the shift shaft is rotated, the return spring arms tense against it (both directions of shift lever movement).

For those of you following along at home, :pop: check page 5-16 of your service manual (-1181-02 anyway). A good pic of the mechanism is at the top of the page.

You're going to see some marks on that pin. It's being rubbed on by spring steel. Shouldn't amount to anything close to a gouge. Certainly if you question it's condition, now is the time to replace it.

I don't see axial play on that bearing being caused by an autoclutch. Why would that be?

As the manual says, play on that bearing (and the other ball bearings) is felt...not measured. Of course, they don't tell you what it feels like when it's bad, but you should not be able to feel ANY off-axis movement on that inner race. The only way you will feel that is if the balls in the bearing or the inner surfaces of the race are worn.

If it rocks back and forth like a heim joint...it's screwed.

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Post by JoKDX220r »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:
I don't see axial play on that bearing being caused by an autoclutch. Why would that be?
Maybe it unbalance the shaft ...?
I don't know what is the "normal lifetime" of this bearing but the autoclutch is installed since oct. 2005.
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Post by dentvet »

Failure of this bearing is a problem in some ktms:
http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=44168

The signs of failure was usually a knocking sound as the clutch basket wobbles against the clutch cover. I don't remember many complaining about shifting problems

ktm upgraded the ball bearing to a roller bearing to fix the problem
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Post by canyncarvr »

Sorry, you are not allowed to view this topic - it is either a private category for Team KTMTalk members or, it is restricted for validated members (no guests).
I don't know what the 'normal' lifetime is of transmission shaft bearings are...but longer than from '03 to now unless there have been some maintenance discrepancies along the way.

Besides, seems to me an autoclutch is going to be much kinder to the transmission than a banging on a manual clutch is going to be.

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