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fuzzy
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Post by fuzzy »

but did carry Xylene for about 2 bucks a gal less
Seems this will work just as well, but I guess it's used to make crank or something so don't go buying 100gals of it w/ your credit card :mrgreen:

Dave, are you running 10% w/ 87octane?
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Post by canyncarvr »

Please do at least take a look at page 6. That's where the guy talks about toluene/xylene, shows some dyno charts. The write-up says there were tests on 2 and 10%...but I see comments only on the 2% run. I guess that's what the 'red herring' comment refers to.

Actually, I'm just confused..and will wait for you to 'splain it all to me.


Oh FWIW..in Dave's Chevelle he mentioned 1:4 toluene to gasoline. That's 20%. If he added a gallon to his 5gal. of premix, that's closer to 16%.

Dave: You did end up with a 10% mix in your bike? That's what I'm going to try...two quarts toluene to 4.5gal gasoline.

fuzzy..if I can't use MY credit card to get 100 gal. of xylene, can I use YOURS?

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Post by dave04kdx »

Fuzzy:

I think I ended up with 87 instead of 91 from the corner Chevron. Thats what started this whole thread. Looking back I'm glad it happened. I never would have thought to try the toluene.

CC:

I did end up with 2 quarts toluene to approx. 4 1/2 gallons of gas.

I can't imagine snorting ANYTHING that had even the slightest contact with toluence/xylene :shock: :shock: Scary stuff in my book. :shock: I'd much rather get a natural high hauling a*s on my bike. Too each their own I guess. :sad:
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Post by fuzzy »

CC.....Yeah, I wish those dyno results would've been shown as well. I don't think any big power gains are going to come of the use of these chemicals(just as if you were to run C12), but rather a cheap form of race gas (derived from 87) that will enhance throttle response, etc. I've never used the stuff as an octane booster, but never really thought about it un til now. I've used it as an alky/oil/nitro stabilizer. And, no, you can't use my Credit Card. Please paypal vince at woodsrider.net and he'll take care of it... :lol:
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Post by canyncarvr »

Got my toluene last week. One gal. for about $9.

After the day's ride yesterday I drained the tank, put in Shell pump 92 'enhanced' with 5% toluene (12.8oz toluene in 1.9g. fuel. SuperM to 40:1).

I didn't have the time to run it as long as I would have liked to compare to the previous riding. I did want to try it same/same considering temps, air pressures, RH, riding environs etc. etc. I took particular note of several hills earlier for later comparison purposes.

You gotta get summa this stuff!! Even at 5% the difference was remarkable. Now...some think I make up little differences between this-n-that. No thinking up required in this case. Throttle response improvement was a big deal.

In places where I was using 2nd gear earlier in the day (with a bit of work), the same gear with the toluene mix worked perfectly..no 'work' required. Terrific pull!!

Didn't have much of an opportunity to see what it did on the top-end of things. One fairly long WOT up thru 6th did surprise me a good bit at the braking end of things. Took a whole lot more brake than I figured it would...guess I was going a good bit faster than I'd thought.....

Not enough time with it to be sure, but the exhaust seemed a whole lot cleaner (most on this board probably recall I've not been able to clean up my spoo mess after the cylinder was ported :cry: ).

The bike does smell like it's burning..well, paint thinner! I guess that's 'cuz it IS!

Yesterday was my first ride in quite some time using a CEK..that made a good bit of difference from what I'm generally used to (DEK). The CEK hits a good bit lower in the throttle range, has a great off idle response..a bit lean in the top 1/4. It's not of a whole lot of use in dry conditions..way too much wheel spin too much of the time. Fun, though!

FWIW: 38/CEK-4/152/#7TV, AS 2.5+, 70-80º, 15-4000'el., don't know the air pressure or RH.

I'm curious what the DEK will do with it........... :wink:

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Post by fuzzy »

Good report...
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Post by dave04kdx »

I thought I would update my post for the use of toluene as an octane booster.

My experience found that the toluene does work well at 20% mixed with 91 octane pump gas. I did run into a situation that made the toluene useless and a waste of money. The first gallon I bought worked well. The second gallon can I bought had a very different smell than the first, and guess what? My bike was pinging again. IMO the quality control must not be too strict on the toluene that I bought. After all, it is marketed as a paint thinner not a octane booster. I can only find toluene in one store in my area. Its not worth the money to take the chance on mixing inadequate fuel for my bike. I went to our local airport and bought a gallon of 100 low lead av gas, mixed it with 2 gals 91 pump gas and the KDX didn't ping at all yesterday. :supz:
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Post by KDXer »

dave04kdx wrote:I went to our local airport and bought a gallon of 100 low lead av gas
What elevation are you again ?? 30,000ft ?!?! :razz: :lol: Just messin with ya. Our AV gas is almost the same price as high octane premium unleaded over here. I doubt I would benefit running an AV gas mix without any porting work done to the engine and at sea level. What about the tolulene, is it not worthwhile with my motor being relatively standard ?? Thanks for the reports I may be going to the paint store for a look tomorrow.
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Post by canyncarvr »

For $14 ($86.47 AUS), it's worth a try.

A lot's been said about AV gas and why it is good....for a plane.

I guess if I used it and liked it, I'd say, 'If it suits me, it oughtta tickle the heck out of YOU!'

And so it should!
Last edited by canyncarvr on 01:38 pm Jun 20 2005, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by dave04kdx »

Hey, Kay Dee Exer

I have been accused of having my head in the clouds, maybe thats why my bike pings :lol: :lol:

My engine is stock except for the RB Carb, pipe and silencer. The toluene made a big difference, when I got a good batch! Now that I have the toluene that smells like mineral spirits I have $30.00 worth of lawn mower gas. :mrgreen: :rolleyes:
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Post by canyncarvr »

Yet another note on toluene:

Rode yesterday with a DEK-4. Due to a calculation error on my part (was thinking 2.5g, was mixing 2.0g) I ended up with a bit 'richer' toluene mix..6.3% actually.

What a blast!! It is much more fun to ride when the bottom end pull of the bike is something you can COUNT on to pull you out of trouble. It's not a matter of hit/wheelspin, but just pull!

BTW...not a speck of goo on my fender, either. Quite a difference from the porting-woes I've been mucking with for over a year using other fuel mixes.

Thanks. A BIG thanks to Ron for the tip!

It's a whole lott'a fun!!

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Post by KDXer »

Anymore results to reports here anyone ??
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Post by fuzzy »

Yeah, race gas is good. Homeade race gas is good too. :wink:
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Post by KDXer »

Homeade ?? Is that like Lemonade ?!? :lol:
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Post by Colorado Mike »

Hey CC, any thoughts on what your mix does to engine temps? I need mine to run cooler. Will adding toulene do that at all?
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Post by canyncarvr »

I have a temp gun...but haven't carried it around in awhile...never used it in regard to the toluene/xylene mix.

I would think that a slower burning fuel would create less heat...but then, I've read that toluene has more btu/volume than conventional gasoline.

So...off to the experts. Well, what other folks say, anyway.
[b]this guy[/b] wrote: Anything that contributes to lowering the temperature that the endgas reaches will make detonation less likely. Anything that slows the process of conversion from normal gasoline into a sensitive explosive, will make detonation less likely. Anything that speeds up combustion, so that is it completed before the conditions needed for detonation can develop fully, will make deto less likely.

Therefore the following will work;

(1) Lower intake temperature

(2) Lower throttle position, lower volumetric efficiency, or reduced turbo boost the less mixture that enters the cylinder, the less it is heated by compression.

(3) Lower intake pipe, crankcase, and/or cylinder, piston, or head temperatures. This year's Yamaha 250cc road race engine, for instance, has a copper cylinder head insert to conduct combustion heat away faster, resulting in a lower combustion chamber surface temperature.

(4) Lower compression ratio. The less you squeeze it, the less it is heated.

(5) A more breakdown resistant fuel, such as toluene or isooctane. If straight chain molecules are not present, the fuel will not be broken down so rapidly by preflame reactions.
Bet it wouldn't be enough to make much difference to you. Would be fun to hear otherwise, though!

When's the Evan's test?

BTW...'this guy' above is a link to the article. Note what he says about detonation and exhaust temp? Howabout that? If you're pinging, your internal temp is gonna go up.

For about $12/gal., it's sure worth a shot! Try it at 10% for starters..see what happens!

Good luck! That would be great to hear toluene improved things for you!!

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Post by skipro3 »

Evans status:

Run this through UPS tracking:

1ZWA42290342077401

They lost it. Every UPS package is already insured for $100, so I guess I got lucky and Mike is boiling!!!! :lol:
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Post by KDXer »

Maybe the UPS truck over heated... :lol:
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Post by skipro3 »

To avoid haz-mat shipping issues, I told the gal at the UPS office it was green tea. Maybe the driver................Nawwwwww :partyman:
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Post by KDXer »

:lol:
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