Butyl or rubber?

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Butyl or rubber?

Postby canyncarvr » 11:26 am Apr 14 2005

I generally use butyl tubes. I'm not going to run a patched tube, so patches not sticking to butyl isn't of concern to me. Cheaper than rubber and easier to change (cleaner for sure).

But, rubber tubes kind'a 'moult' a good bit and are quite the mess to change. Supposedly more pliable and therefore less likely to get pinched.

How many of youse guys have reasons or points of view of one compound or the other?

Thanks.

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Postby skipro3 » 11:29 am Apr 14 2005

Mine are rubber and I've never had a flat. (Crap, now I've jinked it)
I run 13 psi front and rear.
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Postby canyncarvr » 11:51 am Apr 14 2005

Do yours have little rubber bits stuck all over the tube when you take it out?

Do you even SEE your tubes? ;)

What with egg-money tire-changin' and all.............

I put a couple of Excel spokes in my wheel last night, too. Sure do like their nipples!! Nice wrench (slotted affair) comes with..you're not going to use your Rowe wrench on 'em!!

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Postby IdahoCharley » 04:38 pm Apr 14 2005

CC - I've only run the natural rubber tubes. They are messy and there are rubber bits all over the place. When I reuse a tube I probably spend 5 minutes cleaning it up for the next tire. I believed most of the rubber bits that stick to my tubes were from the inner portion of my tires. I've also sort of blamed my procedure of using WD-40 for contributing to the mess and maybe so of the interaction between the tube and tire.

I patched a few tubes on the trail. Since I went with 4mm heavy duty tubes four years ago I don't even bring tire irons for my bike. There is just no way that I would be able to pull the tube repair it and get it back into the tire in the field. I don't know if that is a good thing or not.

I think butyl rubber also is supposed to hold air better. Natural rubber supposedly is a little more permeable.

So what got you going on this topic??
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Postby canyncarvr » 05:12 pm Apr 14 2005

What got me going: The 'messy..rubber bits all over the place' mostly. I was surprised to see such junk in there!

I didn't check the inside of the tire..the chunky bits rolled off like tube residue..and was just as messy, too!

And, yes...it took a good while to clean it up.

It was my first natural rubber tube...bought it only 'cuz I'd never tried one and the parts guy thought they were better'n butyl. THAT a lot due to the patching problems with the other tubes.

Seems that with that much 'stuff' floating around..and if it does come from the tube... that sooner or later you're going to wear a hole clean through it.

Guess that overall I'm not too impressed with natural rubber. Was looking for someone's input along the line of, 'Rubber tubes. Greatest things since sliced bread 'cuz <insert IMO here>.'

Or some other point of view...........

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Postby skipro3 » 06:29 pm Apr 14 2005

I just changed my front tire. (Yes, myself. NO egg money since the wife was off somewhre)
The tube looked fine with a light coating of baby power still on it like I always use. Inside the old tire was quite a bit of black rubber dirt like stuff. Is that from the tube? I like my rubber tube because it holds it's shape even when I pull the valve out of it and deflate it. When I re-install it, there's no folds or creases to cause a pinch. I dust the tube and inside of the tire with baby powder and use silicone spray to work the tire back onto the rim. The spray leaves no residue you can see. NO oil like film such as WD-40 leaves.

I also discovered something:
I took the wheel off with the axle left in place and put the axle in big vise. That really worked well as a tire stand for taking the old tire off and putting the new tire on. My vise is on a stand bolted to the garage floor so I am working at waist height. Next, I'll try the rear tire. (Lock your windows and doors, then turn up the stereo so you don't hear me)
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Postby canyncarvr » 06:49 pm Apr 14 2005

There is NO way I could squeeze the axle tight enough in my vise to hold it steady against the jamming, pushing,swearing and...oh..sorry, I mean...rather firm pressures required to change a tire.

I generally have one bead or the other up out of the rim when it's not supposed to be. I have to hold 'em down with my knees.

Silicone spray? That isn't going to 'evaporate' or anything, will it? Why doesn't it stay too slick for too long?

I just use the old soapy water (laundry detergent..not dishwashing soap) idea. Yeah..the moisture is a problem for nipples and stuff. But I've got the inside of my wheels pretty well sealed off with duct tape.

I've got to get some of that 'tire'goo' stuff you put on with a brush. Probably could use a paper towel or something..but I use my spray bottle. The water probably is responsible for a lot of the 'bits-o-junk' I had stuck to the tube.

re: folds

I noticed that. It (the rubber one) stayed a whole lot more 'in shape' than the butyl tubes.

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Postby motorider200 » 09:41 pm Apr 14 2005

One product I've used that has saved me alot of trouble is that green slime stuff. I resently flipped my rear tire and in the process of mounting the tire I of coarse pinched the tube.:mad: It wouldn't even hold enough air to push the bead out all of the way. I put the slime in and it sealed it up great. :supz: I've also used it in four wheeler tires the stuff works great.
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Postby clutchcover » 10:57 pm Apr 14 2005

I have noticed lots of rubber chunks with the natural rubber tubes and hate the mess that comes with them. I usually use butyl tubes, but I always replace them with every tire change. That's usually because a tire iron gets a little too aggressive with the tube. First three tire changes I did cost me three tubes a piece. I'd like to say I've gotten better, but the last time I swapped my paddle tire off, I made four holes in one tube. Hadn't pinched a tube in a long time either :evil:
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Postby Indawoods » 11:09 pm Apr 14 2005

If it holds air...it's a good tube.
I always use the butyl ... I don't care if it has a crease in it or not... blow it up and said crease is gone. If I get a flat...tube is replaced.

Yep... use Slime with MSR Ultra Heavy Duty tubes....

Heck CC... as much as you spend on tires, seems you could afford a few tubes per year too! :lol:
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Postby skipro3 » 12:23 am Apr 15 2005

Next time I have the wheel off, I'll take a photo of it mounted to my vise. I didn't think the vise would work, but I lowered the axle low enough in the vise jaws that the hub also rested on top of the vise. That way there was no wobble.
Silicone spray will dry pretty quick, that's true, but it seems to do the trick for me.

One more thing:
Anyone running a M12 for a front tire notice they are directional!?!?! I just realized it when I mounted my last one; there's an arrow and it has the words "front wheel" in the arrow. Located on the right hand side of the tire. Now, I checked that tire pretty close and I sure can't tell any direction to the pattern. Anyone have an idea why it's marked this way?
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Postby Indawoods » 08:10 am Apr 15 2005

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Postby canyncarvr » 10:42 am Apr 15 2005

Abrasion resistance of rubber is better than butyl? Hhhmmm..not by the look of all the bits rubbed off. I've never seen ANY residue left from a butyl tube.

I run a tube in two tires, usually. RE: aggressive irons. Yeah. I've changed bike tires for only 30-some years. Before the last three changes I only pinched one tube. The last three? Damn aggressive tire irons!!

I've not used an M12, but I've seen other tires marked directional..and I couldn't see it. Maybe it's a construction thing? Some ply configuration?

As much as I spend on tires? What.....I'm buying them in the wrong place? :wink: My last 756 was $68..and I really owed 'em $10 after they reordered my boot soles (wrong the first time..Tech8s have changed soles the last couple years. The cobbler said the earlier (brown) soles are better than the newer soles (black) ) Anyway, $58 is a good price, I figure.

Let me know if someone has 'em for less!

What's wrong with a new tire every four months or so? 'Ya gotta have knobs...don't 'ya? I don't change them for fun!

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Postby Jason » 12:16 pm Apr 15 2005

cc, try chaparral-racing.com for dunlop. $44.97, plus $9 for shipping. That's 100/100- 18

$47.97 for front
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Postby jackpiner57 » 02:20 pm May 07 2005

Oxidation resistance for rubber is "fair". Maybe oxidation is breaking down the rubber causing the pilling?
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