Low pitched clutch squeech

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SteveWR450f
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Low pitched clutch squeech

Post by SteveWR450f »

Not mechanically inclined as much as I would like. Had a local mechanic install a hinson clutch basket and some clutch plates from Jeff Fredette. By the way, I learned that the plates he sells are XR 350 plates that fit KDX.

Anyway, mechanic took off clutch cover for several days while waiting for parts and other delays. I am not hearing the whole story but I think clutch pack got oil and then he replaced my clutch lookthru glass and bike sat dry for a few days in 90 degree weather. So my gut was the plates dried up and just need more time with oil

Bike now makes a low pitched metal on metal type squeeching sound. Clutch makes the noise only occasionally but usually when first ride the bike or also when bike is under load, such as starting the bike in 3rd gear to adjust air screw.

Have changed the oil a few times. Have been using Shell Rotella for a few years and bike never made this noise before. Mechanic changes plates but still makes noise. Any suggestions before I make them take apare and hopefully fix?

Thanks for your time and yes, I need to get more mechanically inclined so this happens less.
WR sold. Now have 03 and 04 KDX 220s.
KXF 250 forks. RB Carb and Head. FMF rev pipe. Long live the KDX !!!
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Post by rick albert »

are the plates in the right order ??????? :hmm:
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fuzzy
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Post by fuzzy »

I always soak my plates in a pan for at least 24hrs before installing...That could be it, but the result of NOT doing that is usually the clutch sticking, not squeaking. There is a thrust bearing in there that shuold be greased, and not just relying on case oil for lube.
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SteveWR450f
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Post by SteveWR450f »

Thanks for the input. I was wondering about the thrust bearing too. Steve
WR sold. Now have 03 and 04 KDX 220s.
KXF 250 forks. RB Carb and Head. FMF rev pipe. Long live the KDX !!!
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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

XR350? That's what the 'mechanic' told you? :hmm: That's gotta make you wonder, don't it?

**Please note my mea culpa below**


You are familiar with the phantom washer that often gets lost? Take a look at your parts diagram in the manual (or online) and you see TWO such washers..one INside the basket, one OUTside the basket. Make sure they are both there.

Did he re-use the conical spring/seat of the OEM clutch? The large diameter pieces that fit against the outside plate? Not if he used all XR plates..'cuz they won't FIT. You have to use ONE OEM plate (outside one) of you use those release springs.

I smell a rat. A mechanic that says he used XR350 clutch plates is soneome I want to 'Run away...Run away...' (what movie is THAT, Inda?) from!!! How did he go about putting the gear on the basket? ASK HIM!! Just ask that and see what he says. Write it down, even, and post it here. There is likely some interference between the fasteners he used for the assembly of the OEM gear to the Hinson basket. What thread agent did he use? Not the color...the number? What about the isolators? Just ask...'What about the isolators?' See what he says.

Just a guess... It's worth a take-apart to see what's going on.

BTW..my point is I have never heard of using XR350 plates. I don't see that XR400 plates (what I have heard of being used, what Fredette sold me, what I use, what works fine) are the same as XR350 plates. Clutch kit numbers for the two bikes are not the same anyway. That doesn't necessarily mean the plates are not the same. They may be.

OK...just went looking at a Honda fiche. The XR350 has three different kinds of plates in the pack for one thing. The friction is:

22201-KAE-000

The XR400?

22201-MAL-600

That from: HERE!

The point of my point is: I'm not going to begin to think about maybe faking trusting a 'mechanic' that tries to BS me. Consider that every mechanic I've ever dealt with HAS shoveled the BS. It's either just my luck, or most of them are hacks.

..which is why, if it needs to be done, I'm going to do it. If possible, I mean. I have a Hinson basket. I didn't see a big problem with changing the gear, but I also didn't want ANY chance of error or screw up. THAT'S why I sent my old basket/gear and NEW basket to RB-Designs to have it done right the first time.

...and it works perfectly.

Too late now...but you could've have taken your parts there easily enough. Maybe keep that in mind for the next time? If it was me (and it's not) I'd take the basket to RB..ask nicely if he could check it out to see what's goobered.

So...make sure the two washers are there. Look for interference between the hub and the basket where the fasteners attach the gear TO the basket.
Last edited by canyncarvr on 12:24 pm Jul 14 2008, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by KarlP »

The movie is

MONTY PYTHONS QUEST FOR THE HOLY GRAIL

One CANNOT cut down a tree with a herring, therefore a shrubbery is to be planted.

Yeah, that sneaky washer is sneaky.

I'm using 4 plates from an '02 XR400 and 5 plates OEM KDX220. No good reason, just happened that way.

CC is on the money. Last time I played with my clutch I had it on and off three times before I got it right. And I'm an Engineer. (It's a miracle my bike runs at all!)
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Post by firffighter »

I had a Hinson clutch on my XR400 and it made a squeal very similar to what have described. I called Hinson about it and they said it sometimes happens when they are new and it would go away. I continued to ride it and it did go away.

Not saying that is the case with yours Steve, but that is the experience I had with my Hinson.
'
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Post by canyncarvr »

Well...it's Monty Python and the <no search> Holy Grail, actually. I mean...you can't have guys running around clunking coconuts actually searching for anything!! Hell...they couldn't handle a cottonpickin' rabbit!!
:wink:

Still...basically..you're right! Good call! YOU WIN!! :supz:

Firff: You didn't say..so I s'pose they didn't either, but to be clear...did they just happen to mention WHY it was happening?

I'd hate to let rubbing/screeching/metal sounds go unresolved unless I had a pretty good idea what was going on.

New clutch plates DO squeal sometimes. Especially if they haven't been soaked good..in the right stuff.

Steve: Give 'em a buzz!

From the web:

Hinson Clutch Components
1630 W. 11th St.
Upland, Ca. 91786
Ph. 909-946-2942
Fax 909-985-2301
info@hinsonracing.com

It would be very good to KNOW what the problem is that they expect is going to go away.

Hard to know the sounds you (Steve) and firff hear are the same.

Hope it works out, though!

**edit**
I sent them an emai. I'll let 'ya know if they respond.

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Post by canyncarvr »


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SteveWR450f
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Post by SteveWR450f »

Rode again this last weekend and it made less noise so I am hopefull its just a "new" basket thing.

As far as the clutch plates are concerned . . . Looked at the packaging from Fredette. Here it what it said:VC 173. Looking at a parts book at my mechanic's shop I found they fit a XR 350.

I paid Fredette about 70 bucks for them - note 7 in package - but dealer said that was a little high and the maker was not the best.

I then got EBC clutch plates Part number WPS 15-1190. Box also says ck 1190 on it. The EBC box says they fit TRX 250X so the mystery continues but they look exactly the same as the Fredette one. Paid $40 for those but only 6 plates. One plus about buying from Fredette is that he gives you the required 7 plates. Anyway, just thought I would pass this on for future reference.

Thanks everyone for there input and yes I need to spell check more often. Apparently, still learning to spell screech. :lol:
WR sold. Now have 03 and 04 KDX 220s.
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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: 'Paid $40 for those but only 6 plates.'

That's part of the rub. Get them from Fredette, and you get the number you need. The other applications for that plate are sixes.

..as you did say.

If they fit and work...fine.

VC-173 is a Vesrah kit..includes springs. That said, I see that number apply to both seven AND six disk machines.

Not trying to pick this to death...but there IS something not right.

This:

VC-173 FITS MODEL: XR350R 83-84, # DISCS REQ: 6 $57.95
VC-175 FITS MODEL: XR400R 96-04, # DISCS REQ: 7 $66.95

..from Parts Unlimited

..begs a question.

Maybe the difference in part numbers is not a plate difference, but quantity difference.

But, as already said, other sites list the -173 for both seven AND six plated clutches.

Why does it matter?

Just because the tabs fit in the basket does NOT mean they're the right friction plates for your bike. The XR400 plates are considerably wider (not thicker..wider) than the OEM plates.

A repeat: Did you use the large conical spring and seat on your rebuilt assy? IF YOU DID, and used only the Vesrah plates, you did NOT put in the larger (wider) plates..'cuz those springs will not fit with those plates.

Bottom line likely is....who cares, I s'pose. Put a clutch together, it makes noise, don't know what it is, ignore it long enough and it seems to be going away, so why worry?

I couldn't stand it. But...as Closeau was told, 'It's not my dawg.'

I called Fredette. I understand MY error now. The plates from Vesrah are NOT XR400 plates. Indeed, they are, '...Honda 250 or something...' he said (not Fredette..the guy that answered the phone and politely answered my questions).

It's FORK SPRINGS that are XR400 related, not clutch plates. I mixed the two applications.

My smart remarks regarding the fit issue were without basis, wrong.


Whew! Aren't we glad that got cleared up!

Thass'a joke...son. Likely more of the 'who cares' kind'a stuff.

Thanks for the additional info, Steve. If nothing else, watching out for the seven vs: six packaging is something that will help some other rider out.

...and here I thought 'squeech' was simply a phonetic spelling/rendering of the noise!
Last edited by canyncarvr on 01:44 pm Jul 14 2008, edited 1 time in total.

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SteveWR450f
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Post by SteveWR450f »

Thanks CC for the forgiveness of my bad spelling. Apparently, I was combining screech and squelch together.

I am going to have a different shop look at the clutch just for piece of mind. I love the bike too much plus I am too anal just to ignore something.

Thanks for your time, Steve
WR sold. Now have 03 and 04 KDX 220s.
KXF 250 forks. RB Carb and Head. FMF rev pipe. Long live the KDX !!!
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Post by canyncarvr »

Not mechanically inclined as much as I would like.
'Now' sounds like a good time to help that sitsiashun out! Spend some quality time with your air tools, your bike, and some motor oil!!

Shoot...lay the bike on its side and you won't even have to USE any oil!! You can have that clutch out in FIVE MINUTES!

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Post by fuzzy »

Indeed....If you're gonna own a dirt bike it's time to get your hands dirty. I've worked on lawn mowers more difficult. Minimal tools needed, along with a manual, common sence, and when all else fails a digi camera to post pics on here, and you're good to go.
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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

DAngit!! There's the snooker of the whole deal!!!!

Common sense!!! (Is that a 3/8" or 1/2" drive?)

If I could'a had summa that over the years...how easy it all would've been.

Well, I'm guessin' based on what the folks that say they have a lot of it say about it.

:wink:

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