Lean Seizures

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green_passion
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Lean Seizures

Post by green_passion »

After spending a couple of hours reading and searching, I was curious what the some of the symptoms leading up to a "lean seizure" of a bike?
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Post by 91kdx200 »

You will notice a loss of power right before it seizes up.
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Post by skipro3 »

If you are talking about a lean seize during jetting attempts, that is usually not a problem. A 2 stroke motor will give some warning; detonation or a surge when chopping the throttle. The surge is like the throttle didn't turn off very quickly and you feel the motor's power continue on after shutting off the throttle.

Are you having troubles or just trying to prevent a lean seize while adjusting your jetting?
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Post by green_passion »

>|<>QBB<
skipro3 wrote:If you are talking about a lean seize during jetting attempts, that is usually not a problem. A 2 stroke motor will give some warning; detonation or a surge when chopping the throttle. The surge is like the throttle didn't turn off very quickly and you feel the motor's power continue on after shutting off the throttle.

Are you having troubles or just trying to prevent a lean seize while adjusting your jetting?
Actually I just had my bike implode on me Saturday night so I'm trying to better understand what happend. :cry:

All the water was gone out of the bike and it didn't boil over or leak into the bottom end. Plus it was running super lean before it died on us. We just did a pressure test and all the air came out of the head bolts.

No bueno after all the work & money we've put into this year. :sad: :cry:
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Post by skipro3 »

Wow!! YOu just got that thing put back together, didn't you? I guess you won't be joining us in Oregon or Idaho any time soon then. Obviously an air leak somewhere, did you forget to install a gasket or something? Let us know...
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Post by MX500 »

Blown head gasket.


Just my $.002, you may have gotten lucky and forgotten to torque your head bolts. No coolant (burned in engine)+air leaking from around head= sounds like a head gasket to me.
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Post by skipro3 »

If MX500 is right, your exhaust should have the sweet odor of antifreeze.
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Post by green_passion »

According to the mechanic, when he looked at the head gasket, he thinks he over torqued the head bolts which in turn ruined the head gasket. The piston and the cylinder look fine and luckily I'm only out a head gasket. :prayer:

(That and a big fat "DNF" for me and my teammate :evil: )

It was a good thing that it died on a downhill where the head bolts came loose where it just lost the compression and not in a wide open section of the race course where it could have been much worse. (This all happened in the middle of a night race last weekend) :blink:


At first he told me that the piston was melted so thus the reason I was hunting for some information about "lean seizures".

Jerry, I'm still in for some riding up North, please let me know when they are! :supz: :mrgreen:
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Post by skipro3 »

There's an Idaho ride forming up over on thumpertalk for Kawasaki riders.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: 'I was curious what the some of the symptoms leading up to a "lean seizure" of a bike?


Here's one expression of a symptom: 'Wow! This thing is running better than it ever has!!!'

No. I'm not kidding.


IF the problem started with improperly torqued head fasteners, that is at the very least a big red flag to USE A TORQUE WRENCH!. Based on the facts relayed to this point, the 'torque elbow' used (maybe) is not up to snuff.

If a wrench was used (correctly, obviously), there certainly is a chance the wrench is wrong..bad...out of calibration. Wrenches DO need to be calibrated from time to time. Also, wrenches commonly act differently from left to right AND wrench angle (no...I'm not talking about the º to any adapter).

A bit of a nit picked...but did the nuts come loose? ..or the studs? There are no bolts on the cylinder/head.

The pins WERE put back into the head/cylinder after the replate...right? If not, I believe the gasket can be put in upside-down. Wrong side up, even.

Someone may not like this much...but they already know it. An engine failure due to having not torqued (or incorectly torqued) a head is not excuseable. I'm not dinging on any person in particular...it said more for the casual reader whose idea is, 'I don't need to torque this. I know what I'm doing!'

Those of you with qualified torque elbows...I'm not talking to you.

If all the coolant 'came out'..obviously it went someplace. If it leaked outside the engine, that should have been plainly evident and noticeable. If it leaked INside the engine, the smoke and smell should have also been plainly evident and noticeable.

There is a recent thread on TT about a cylinder from USChrome that had a ridge on the bore edge. Before your bike is bolted back together, please do check both the cylinder and head for true/square.

Scenario: 'The Mechanic' did everything he was supposed to...correctly, even. Such a ridge being present on your cylinder, with heat the head would have 'formed' to the resultant gap, thus rendering the stud/nut fasteners loose. Not to gang-up on USC...but this could be their problem.

..and it could happen again (if the head isn't already warped) if it's not taken care of.

Good luck!

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Post by green_passion »

I agree with you about the mechanic and he knows where he went wrong with using a cheapo torque wrench from Harbor Freight. He's promised me not to repeat the mistake and actually put in the cash for a good one.

Plus after further investigation last night the piston is toast and there are slight groove marks worn into the cylinder. So my cylinder is once again being shipped back to EC for warranty repairs. I'm not a happy camper at this point.:evil:

Also of note, it was pitch dark when we rode the bike and I'll admit I'm pretty clueless when it comes to knowing when things are heading south on the bike.

Here's to hoping that once it comes back from EC it'll be fixed. :roll:
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Post by fuzzy »

Yeah, I threw my HF 'clicker' torque wrench away. Nothing wrong witha cheap 'old school' one though. That being said I own a ton of HF tools.
Those of you with qualified torque elbows
I've been working out a lot lately (way overdue), and snapped a small bolt off the other night working on my truck. I think I might need recalibrated. Of course that could've just been liquid induced error, but it's been a while since I've done that. OK, I'm blaming it on reusing a rustly stretched bolt.
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Post by canyncarvr »

...I'm pretty clueless..
I have no idea of the facts (or not) behind that. Maybe it's modesty.

IF true, it's not healthy. But...you know that.

It's your show...but 'slight grooves' don't necessitate getting the cylinder redone. If the grooves are through the plating..then, yes.

..but those wouldn't be 'slight' in my book.

Having it looked at probably isn't a bad idea.

Send the head, too!!! Have EG make sure it's still flat. Do make sure he checks the top of they cylinder, too, to make sure IT'S flat.

Don't forget the pins. They're taken out when the cylinder is scoured before replate. Actually YOU (the rider) should take them out before you send the cylinder in. That way you don't have to wonder if you're gonna get them back.

Good luck...again! :wink:
Last edited by canyncarvr on 03:34 pm Jun 27 2008, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by green_passion »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:
...I'm pretty clueless..
I have no idea of the facts (or not) behind that. Maybe it's modesty.

IF true, it's not healthy. But...you know that.

It's your show...but 'slight grooves' don't necessitate getting the cylinder redone. If the grooves are through the plating..then, yes.

..but those wouldn't be4 'slight' in my book.

Having it looked at probably isn't a bad idea.


Good luck...again! :wink:
I'm only clueless when its concerning of the inner workings of my bike. I really just know the basics that involve straddling~n~riding it. Oh and when it make a funny sputtering sound. :wink: :mrgreen:



EC asked to have us ship everything to him. The cylinder, piston, power valve (dunno why on that one) and the head. It'll be interesting what he says about everything once he looks at it. I'm being promised a one week turn around but I'll believe it when I see it. :roll:

I'll report back what the verdict is next week as soon as I find out.

Thanks!! :partyman:
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