How do you easily tell if the KIPS is working?

Colorado Mike · Post by **Colorado Mike** » 04:15 pm Apr 10 2005

Okay, I've been searching around without finding a good answer to this. Is there an easy way to tell if the KIPS valves are operating correctly? I mean without tearing down the motor. There is a circular cover on the left side with what looks like a coin slot in it. In looking at the manual, I would think that I can take that off, then rev the motor and see if it rotates. Does that sound right?

Thanks,

Post by **Indawoods** » 04:20 pm Apr 10 2005

CM... that would work. Best way is seat of pants! Usually if you have to ask...something is amis...
When I got my 95...it wasn't working til I tore it down and cleaned the KIPS...then, WOW... you can really tell when it kicks in.

Colorado Mike · Post by **Colorado Mike** » 04:30 pm Apr 10 2005

Yeah, I just don't feel a big hit. But I am running a woods pipe. I usually don't ride in wide open areas , but last Friday went out to a MX track and played around. I was sporting around with two buds of mine one ona KX 250 and the other on a modded XR650R. Both of these bikes have every reason to flatten me LOL. I just thought I should feel something at the top. I could keep them in sight by short shifting. I'll check the operation of the KIPS and if that's ok, I guess I better order up a rev pipe

.

Post by **Indawoods** » 04:39 pm Apr 10 2005

I run a Rev...and I like it much better than a woods pipe and I ride all conditions...sometime you just want to ride WFO!

Last time I went riding... I didn't have any problems keeping up with a new CR125 but I don't know about a KX250.
The Rev still works well in the woods... but that is more the bike than the pipe.
I would still check the KIPS like you said....

Post by **KDXGarage** » 10:55 pm Apr 10 2005

Shouldn't it be the right side cover to come off, checking for rod actuation at 6,000 RPM??

Post by **Indawoods** » 11:03 pm Apr 10 2005

You could check either side... I think the way CM wants to do it would be easier... besides you don't run a risk of having to replace a gasket.

motorider200 · Post by **motorider200** » 11:05 pm Apr 10 2005

If the one on the left moves I don't see why it would be necessary to take the one on the right off.

Post by **Indawoods** » 11:08 pm Apr 10 2005

It's one shaft... Of course if it is bound up...the right side would tell you where... actuating shaft or valves....

Post by **KDXGarage** » 11:12 pm Apr 10 2005

OK, thanks.

89kdx200rdr · Post by **89kdx200rdr** » 11:58 pm Apr 10 2005

keeping up with a cr125 in the woods hahahahahahahahaahahhaahahahahahhaah
u should smoke a 125 in the woods inda if you are a good rider you will stay close or in front of a 250 in the woods (single track)

Post by **Indawoods** » 12:01 am Apr 11 2005

Wasn't in the woods... well.. it was but wide open area...

89kdx200rdr · Post by **89kdx200rdr** » 12:06 am Apr 11 2005

im curious how are the woods up where u are. put some pics in the gallery

Post by **Indawoods** » 12:11 am Apr 11 2005

There is a few in there... river bottoms. I normally don't worry about seeing how fast I can go.. if I can beat a bike etc... But this guy roosted me and took off. I caught up, passed and roosted him...Ah...that was a great day! BTW...this was Land Between the Lakes in Kentucky/Tennessee that this happened. Most woods in Illinois is tight single track....

89kdx200rdr · Post by **89kdx200rdr** » 12:16 am Apr 11 2005

when u guys talk about single track do u mean trails where u can just get your bars between the trees? my bars are 29 3/4 and i do have to do the bar shuffle to get thru some trails here. yes i have cut 3/4 off both sides.

Post by **Indawoods** » 12:19 am Apr 11 2005

We run about 29" usually... Yep...single track means only one bike can get through ... no passing lane.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 12:20 am Apr 11 2005

Yeah! I am wondering how others define it. I have thought it means not wide enough for a four wheel ATV.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 12:04 pm Apr 11 2005

200 or 220? Yeah...I guess I could go find out..but I don't wanna.

Comparing the hit of any 200 to any 220 isn't of much use.

Looking at the RH mechanism will tell you that the actuator is working, but not the KIPS parts in the cylinder.

Looking at the LH mechanism will tell you if the actuator is working and if the main shaft is OK, but not the actual valves.

If you know the actutor is OK (can see it work from the LH side), you still should take the pipe off, look up inside the exhaust port to make sure the subport drums are rotating and the main valve flap is working. You can manually activate the KIPS via the nut under the LH cover while you're looking up the exhaust port.

'Round here, single track means only a bike is going to make it. Sometimes not even a bike. Sure...parts of 'single tracks' you could run a quad for a bit if you flew it in to the starting point. Some trails commonly called 'single track' can be negotiated by a good quad rider...they are 48" wide.

But...JUST because it's 48" wide doesn't mean it's going to be a breeze on a 4-wheeler. Ha! You sit yourself on a quad (any of your choice) and I'll be glad to take you on all sorts of 'quadable' (48") tracks that you won't ever come out from...or die trying!

While we run into a few bar knockers (a good 1/2-dozen yesterday) around here on 'single track', it's not often that close. Much more of a problem having trees blocking the trail (wind fall). We cut several of them out of the way yesterday, too.

Most riders think their riding area is 'special' I suppose. Me, too! Any of you guys that want a guided tour of some of the tracks 'round here...c'mon down! If you don't think, 'Wow!' at the end of the day, I'll double your your money back!!

Timber Mtn. HS this coming weekend!!

Colorado Mike · Post by **Colorado Mike** » 03:10 pm Apr 11 2005

it's a 220. Wondering how the shaft could turn without turning the valves unless the things are stripped? So if I take the pipe off to actually look up the exhaust port to watch the valves, is it necesary to disconnect the actuation linkage on the right side of the motor before turning the shaft in the cylinder? Seems Like it would be easy to bend the actuation shaft that goes down into the crankcase on the right side if you don't, but maybe it will move without being damaged.

Thanks for your patience,

motorider200 · Post by **motorider200** » 03:35 pm Apr 11 2005

I had the kips stop working and the problem was that the little allen head screw that connects the main valve to the shaft came out. The shaft would still turn and the sub-valves would open but the main valves stayed shut.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 05:06 pm Apr 11 2005

Note Moto's post. In his case, looking at the activation rod on the RH side wouldn't tell you what was going on...neither would looking/activating the KIPS from the LH side. Thus the 'Look into it' point of view.

Re: It's a 220.

You will get a whole lot less hit with a 220 than a 200. Also, the pipe of choice of most 220 riders is the rev pipe. The 220 doesn't generally need much help on the bottom end of things..and all the help it can get on the top. Nothing wrong with the torque pipe on a 220 if that's your choice of power band enhancement. But...if you're looking for more top-end on your 220, the torque pipe isn't the correct choice.

Re: 'Wondering how the shaft could turn without turning the valves unless the things are stripped?'

Well...if things are stripped it could.

Common on some earlier ('pre '95) KDX models.

re: 'is it necesary to disconnect the actuation linkage on the right side of the motor before turning the shaft in the cylinder?'

Nope. Activate it via the nut under the LH slotted cover.

re: 'Seems Like it would be easy to bend the actuation shaft that goes down into the crankcase on the right side if you don't..'

Don't know about 'easy' but certainly possible. You are activating it 'backwards' if you will (using the acted upon to make the activator move), but by just a hair more force than the spring that holds the thing 'shut'. If you attack it with a 12" handled 3/4" drive tool..well that's problematic.

If you use just enough force to move it..don't force it past where it wants to stop...you can do it all day long with no negative consequences.

You can get an idea of how dirty the KIPS is, too. The KIPS should return to an 'at rest' position when you let tension off the nut. It won't !s-n-a-p! back with a lot force, but it should move relatively freely. If it moves like it's stuck in cold molasses...that's 'cuz it is. Probably time for a cleaning.

BTW...if this bike wasn't purchased new by you (second or other owner) check not only for movement of the subport drums, but that they are timed correctly. They CAN be put in wrong. The main exhaust is 'open' more when the KIPS is activated. When DEactivated, the subport drums will 'close', directing exhaust gasses to the Helmholtz Resonator. That's the cavity underneath the cover on the LH side that says 'KIPS' on it.

BTW#2: You may notice that it takes a bit more force to GET the KIPS moving than it does to KEEP it moving. There is a spring loaded detent on the outer collar on the LH side. Look at the bottom of the cylinder at the collar and you will see the bolt that squeezes the detent check ball/spring in place.

A common thing to do...take that out. It lets the KIPS 'come on' just a tad sooner. Of course, the whole engine should work as a 'tuned' device. One thing usually works in conjunction with at least several others. FRP sends his ported cylinders back with the spring out.

You might give that a shot. If you don't like it..just put the parts back in!

Whew...is he done, yet???

..........

Hey! I talk overlong like this in real life, too!! Count your blessings!! (You don't have to LISTEN!!)

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How do you easily tell if the KIPS is working?

How do you easily tell if the KIPS is working?