Kick Starter Problems

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rdsrf
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Kick Starter Problems

Post by rdsrf »

Hey CC and Jeb, I thought it’d be a good idea to move this topic to a thread with a more appropriate title. Thanks for your help and input on the other thread!


We have discussed this a bit on another thread titled “Athena Piston Kit” and I’ve done a few searches but haven’t come up with much info on this problem. Up until my last ride, my kick starter very rarely would not engage. It seemed fairly normal compared to other bikes I have owned. Now, after some recent repairs and maintenance, it doesn’t engage very often. It feels normal as you move the kick starter to look for top dead center. Then when you give it a solid kick to start the engine, it feels as if it slips and doesn’t engage.
Here are the changes/repairs I have made:

1. Top end rebuild and power valve maintenance.

2. KIPS actuator arm repair. I replaced the actuator arm retaining pin. This required removal of the right side engine cover.

3. Switched from Bel Ray Gear Saver to Amsoil synthetic motorcycle engine and crankcase oil.

4. Filled with 1000 ml of oil instead of recommended 700 ml. This has been discussed on this site as a way to quiet the engine a bit and has not been known to cause any ill effects.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance for any help and thanks again to canyncarver nad Jeb for their input on the other thread.
Last edited by rdsrf on 09:09 pm May 16 2008, edited 1 time in total.
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Jeb
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Post by Jeb »

And the spring - was it in place as it should be?
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Post by rdsrf »

I'm fairly sure it was. I didn't look for it specifically, but I didn't see or hear it popping out. From what I can tell it is a return spring, and the kick lever is returning to its position normally, so I don't really suspect it as the cause of the problem.
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Post by skythrasher »

I have had problems like this before due to the oil being a little too thick. It got better when the bike was warm though. I would check for proper assembly and spring tension. The spring in question is not the return spring it is a very light spring that is a little on the weak side as it is.
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Post by rdsrf »

Thanks for your input. I haven't messed with the kick starter mechanism so all should be as it was. Maybe the extra 300 ml of synthetic oil has made a subtle problem more obvious. It's 10w-40. Did you you ever wind up doing any repairs?
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Post by Jeb »

Rd - I gotta think that if it worked fine before but now something's amiss - after you've taken the side cover off - there's something up with the reassembly (and please don't take that as an insult to your abilities). That seems much more likely than a difference in the oil. If it was me I'd take the cover back off and check, PITA as it may be.
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Post by skythrasher »

My brother runs the Bel Ray Gearsaver in his yz250. It seems to be a little lower viscosity that the Spectro 10w-40 than I run. It would be fairly easy to drain the oil and go back to the Bel Ray and see if that helps. Look here at 92081A this is the spring in question. Yes I replaced mine and it helped.
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Post by Jeb »

92081 - yes, that's the spring whose tang may be unhooked. You'll have to take the side cover off to see.

I don't understand why it would have to be replaced if it worked fine before.
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Post by rdsrf »

Drained the oil lat night and added 700 ml instead of 1000 ml. It worked great in the garage (kicked 8 times before it slipped, then another 20 + times without slipping) but of course was malfunctioning out in the trails today. It didn't seem to matter if it was hot or cold. I'll be taking the cover off to investigate this week.
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Post by skythrasher »

I replaced the spring because I thought it to be weak. When I compared the new one to the old one there was a noticable difference in tension. Not a precise measurement, but enough difference to tell by hand.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Just skimmed this...'cuz it seems that not much has changed. This is going WAY the long way around the horn to get the job done.


First off...92081 is only a partial number...it applies to EVERY spring in this case (thass'a joke, son), the ratchet spring (92081-122) and the kicker spring (92081-1926) are two of them.

What about any oil is going to cause the assy to work fine..take it apart..then it don't work?

And why bother spending ANY time reasoning why the spurious interjection is baseless?

Taking the cover off easily leads to kicker assy problems. That you took the cover off means you DID 'mess with' the starter mechanism!!

So...take the cover back off and find out what went wrong. :neutral:

There is nothing wrong with asking a question. When someone that either knows the answer or has a 99% shot at having it right gives you the answer, please do have the courtesy of looking into it instead of making up some completely different line of unreasoning. Save Jeb the time it's taking him to sew up this particular silk purse.

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Post by Cturbo »

My kick starter will slip with any fancy/syntetic oil. It won't slip with conventional 10W-30. The cheaper, the better. This is a common problem with this bike. My fix is easy to try.
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Post by rdsrf »

Not trying to be argumentative or waste anyone's time.

Back in HS auto shop, they always taught us to look at the simplest things first when trouble shooting. I looked at the stuff I did:

1. Top end rebuild and power valve maintenance.

2. KIPS actuator arm repair. I replaced the actuator arm retaining pin. This required removal of the right side engine cover.

3. Switched from Bel Ray Gear Saver to Amsoil synthetic motorcycle engine and crankcase oil.

4. Filled with 1000 ml of oil instead of recommended 700 ml. This has been discussed on this site as a way to quiet the engine a bit and has not been known to cause any ill effects.

# 1 wouldn't have any affect on the kick starter. #'s 2 through 4 would. Of those 3 items, #'s 3 and 4 are the easiest to investigate and are also supported by skythrasher and Cturbo's input as well as stuff on the net if you do a search.

I tried reducing the amount of oil which didn't solve anything. That eliminates # 4. I still have some of the Bel Ray conventional oil that I used to use. I will try that and see what happens. If I hadn't changed oil types and amounts I would have looked at # 2 immediately and pulled the cover to investigate. If it doesn't resolve the problem I will pull the cover and take it from there. Just basic troubleshooting and process of elimination. Seems reasonable to me. Thanks again for all of the input.
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Post by canyncarvr »

:hmm: What WOULD I do with ANOTHer purse, anyway? :wink:

Good luck.

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Post by skythrasher »

First off...92081 is only a partial number...it applies to EVERY spring in this case (thass'a joke, son), the ratchet spring (92081-122) and the kicker spring (92081-1926) are two of them.
Yes 92081 is a partial part#. However, 92081A is the number I put in the post. 92081A refers to only one spring in the diagram. The confusion that sometimes comes about with part numbers is the reason that I posted a link to the diagram. The diagram gives a seperate number for every part shown. The post was intended to make a reference to the part in the picture. I was not making a reference to any part numbers. I hope your purse matches your shoes. :lol:
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Post by canyncarvr »

Mr. Thrasher:
Sorry you took it personally....as I wasn't referring to a thing you had said, but to a completely different (and yet still not your..) post.

I read Jeb's posts more closely than most...'cuz he pretty much always has something to say that I'm interested in...and can learn something from. I'm sure you noticed that 92081A has no tang??..and isn't slipping out from anywhere?


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I can't get the pinks to quite match on my set...thanks for asking.

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Post by Jeb »

:oops: OK; I shoulda' looked more closely at thrasher's study and not been in such a durn hurry . . . the spring to which I was referring is actually 92081B. Tang and all.

:an emoticon with a smiley face reaching up and slapping himself in the forehead:

Sorry for the confusion

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Post by skythrasher »

I did not take it personally. My post was to try to clear up what spring I was talking about. It was in response to a post by the author of the thread.
From what I can tell it is a return spring, and the kick lever is returning to its position normally, so I don't really suspect it as the cause of the problem.
This might work.
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Post by rdsrf »

I should have updated this at the time I made the repair. Can't recall why I didn't but better late than never as some other readers may benefit from this experience.

I tried the Bel Ray Gear Saver oil on my next ride. This yielded some improvement but I still wasn't happy with the result. It wouldn't slip as often but still enough to be annoying.

When I pulled the cover off the return spring was still in place and wasn't related to this issue. During reassembly however, it would try to free itself from the hole that the tang fits into. Make sure to push it in as far as possible and try not to be too forcefull when putting the cover on. You will hear it if it does pop out. Your kick starter will also not return as well.

I had become rather tired of pulling this cover off and making repairs so I opted to replace the spur (ratchet?) and starter gears (expensive) as well as the small spring that creates the tension for the kickstarter assembly. There is some evidence saying that replacing the spring will cure the issue, others have said the gears must be replaced as well. Use your discretion.

Another interesting note. When comparing my kickstarter assembly to the parts schematic, I discovered it was missing one of the thin washers. Not sure if this had occuered when assembled by Kawasaki or if a previous owner had been in there before. At any rate, this may have caused the assembly to not have proper spring tension and develope the resulting slippage. Ordered that washer as well.

After reassembly, it hasn't slipped once regardless of what type of oil I run.
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