bottom shock mount redeaux (that for Jason)
- canyncarvr
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bottom shock mount redeaux (that for Jason)
I have looked for a replacement bearing for this thing before. Two bearing wholesalers have told me that it didn't exist...no such cross...it must be a Kawi proprietary part.
So...I figured that to be so...didn't look further.
Then...kelseybrent (thank you) gave me a McMaster-Carr catalog link to just such a bearing. 5905K76 is the McMaster PN. Well...sorta. This is a caged bearing. So, it has fewer rollers..but they will be held straight.
I've always wondered about the straight part. A brand new bearing from Kawi will have crooked pins. Being crooked, they won't 'roll' too good. Hence...they get stuck. Well...maybe.
So...a caged bearing would resolve that. KelseyB said he had used such a bearing for about 1/2 a season. Said the cage was OK..the pins weren't smushed. Still rusty..
I just ordered a double sealed bearing of the same ID/OD (5905K98). It's 4mm longer than the unsealed type. I haven't measured the OEM stuff, but I recall the sleeve to be a good bit longer than the bearing. So...the oem seals will maybe still fit..well, not to any particular effect..but they will take up the same space they did.
So...maybe they will work just as good as they did...which is to say...to no particular effect..cause they don't do diddle!
And...maybe the double sealed part will help the bearing live.
Nylarod/Vesconite/double sealed caged...SOMEthing has to be better than the crap that's in there from Kawi.
Thanks for tuning in...........
So...I figured that to be so...didn't look further.
Then...kelseybrent (thank you) gave me a McMaster-Carr catalog link to just such a bearing. 5905K76 is the McMaster PN. Well...sorta. This is a caged bearing. So, it has fewer rollers..but they will be held straight.
I've always wondered about the straight part. A brand new bearing from Kawi will have crooked pins. Being crooked, they won't 'roll' too good. Hence...they get stuck. Well...maybe.
So...a caged bearing would resolve that. KelseyB said he had used such a bearing for about 1/2 a season. Said the cage was OK..the pins weren't smushed. Still rusty..
I just ordered a double sealed bearing of the same ID/OD (5905K98). It's 4mm longer than the unsealed type. I haven't measured the OEM stuff, but I recall the sleeve to be a good bit longer than the bearing. So...the oem seals will maybe still fit..well, not to any particular effect..but they will take up the same space they did.
So...maybe they will work just as good as they did...which is to say...to no particular effect..cause they don't do diddle!
And...maybe the double sealed part will help the bearing live.
Nylarod/Vesconite/double sealed caged...SOMEthing has to be better than the crap that's in there from Kawi.
Thanks for tuning in...........
Last edited by canyncarvr on 01:00 pm Dec 13 2005, edited 1 time in total.
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- Indawoods
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CC... aren't you concerned with any lateral movement causing distortion on the bearings due to them hanging over?
On the Kaw bearing: I don't think the stock bearing get's too outta wack cause tolerances are pretty tight when the sleeve and dusk covers is in. At least that's what I have found. Have you mic'd the sleeve and shock bore to see if any of that is outta round?
Grease: I use this synthetic Mystik Wheel Bearing grease on all my bearings... seems to hold up real good with very little loss and minimal scuffing. It is very cheap and I was wondering what you use.
On the Kaw bearing: I don't think the stock bearing get's too outta wack cause tolerances are pretty tight when the sleeve and dusk covers is in. At least that's what I have found. Have you mic'd the sleeve and shock bore to see if any of that is outta round?
Grease: I use this synthetic Mystik Wheel Bearing grease on all my bearings... seems to hold up real good with very little loss and minimal scuffing. It is very cheap and I was wondering what you use.
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****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- canyncarvr
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Hydrosyn-70. I use it 'cuz it's the best of any other stuff I've used...meaning it holds up much better. FarmerJ and I split a case of the stuff awhile back.
...haven't heard him say how he likes it.
Any time I've replaced this piece I've replaced all the parts..seals, sleeve and bearing. If there is any out of whack measurement it's because the oem parts out of the bag are that way.
Shock bore? Sorry. Does not compute. You're referring to the bolt hole in the clevis? Nothing wrong there.
re: lateral movement
Just measured all the stuff. If I skim the inside lip off the oem seal, the fit will be pretty darn close. Won't know for sure until I get the new bearing. Might not work at all. I won't put it together without something taking up the space the oem seals do..even if it's just a washer.
..still got to put some kind of mudflap on the unitrack.............
...haven't heard him say how he likes it.
Any time I've replaced this piece I've replaced all the parts..seals, sleeve and bearing. If there is any out of whack measurement it's because the oem parts out of the bag are that way.
Shock bore? Sorry. Does not compute. You're referring to the bolt hole in the clevis? Nothing wrong there.
re: lateral movement
Just measured all the stuff. If I skim the inside lip off the oem seal, the fit will be pretty darn close. Won't know for sure until I get the new bearing. Might not work at all. I won't put it together without something taking up the space the oem seals do..even if it's just a washer.
..still got to put some kind of mudflap on the unitrack.............
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- canyncarvr
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Update:
Around 800 miles on the caged double lipped/sealed bearing.
Still good.
BTW...this bearing installed using BelRay waterproof grease.
Around 800 miles on the caged double lipped/sealed bearing.
Still good.
BTW...this bearing installed using BelRay waterproof grease.
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Yet another ringing endorsement for Bel-Ray's fine line of quality products!
Thank you for the update on the bearing. I know you have had a heck of a time with them.
Thank you for the update on the bearing. I know you have had a heck of a time with them.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net.
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
- canyncarvr
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re: spacing
You mean the thickness of the grease seal at the outer diameter?
I took them to a machine shop (Barnum's..heckuva nice guy), said, 'Make this fit in here with that?' He said, 'OK'.
He made up an arbor that allowed him to set the seals up in his lathe..and he trimmed them to fit.
I've always used new grease seals when replacing the bearing...so I've got a number of them (seals) that are in good shape as the bearing went south in practically a matter of days!. I got a few 'sets' made up as long as I was getting it done.
I can send you the measurement if you are interested. I'll post a pic of the machined seals, too..also if you're interested.
If that's not the measurement you're after...ask again. S-p-e-a-k s-l-o-w-l-y..maybe I'll get it the second time!!
Note: The OEM seal is double lipped. It's not the seal on the OUTside diameter of the grease seal that's the problem..it's the lousy fit of the inner diameter hole, what the mounting bolt goes through. That has NO seal to it..and the OEM bearing ALSO having no seal...it's just waiting to ingest some mud'n-crud.
Note#2: It seems to be more of a wet riding problem than a dusty one. Ski's bottom shock mount bearing stays in pretty good shape..but he doesn't generally ride in a lot of slop. Dust, but not so much mud.
re: BelRay. Ha! Very funny Mr. Who!!
You mean the thickness of the grease seal at the outer diameter?
I took them to a machine shop (Barnum's..heckuva nice guy), said, 'Make this fit in here with that?' He said, 'OK'.
He made up an arbor that allowed him to set the seals up in his lathe..and he trimmed them to fit.
I've always used new grease seals when replacing the bearing...so I've got a number of them (seals) that are in good shape as the bearing went south in practically a matter of days!. I got a few 'sets' made up as long as I was getting it done.
I can send you the measurement if you are interested. I'll post a pic of the machined seals, too..also if you're interested.
If that's not the measurement you're after...ask again. S-p-e-a-k s-l-o-w-l-y..maybe I'll get it the second time!!
Note: The OEM seal is double lipped. It's not the seal on the OUTside diameter of the grease seal that's the problem..it's the lousy fit of the inner diameter hole, what the mounting bolt goes through. That has NO seal to it..and the OEM bearing ALSO having no seal...it's just waiting to ingest some mud'n-crud.
Note#2: It seems to be more of a wet riding problem than a dusty one. Ski's bottom shock mount bearing stays in pretty good shape..but he doesn't generally ride in a lot of slop. Dust, but not so much mud.
re: BelRay. Ha! Very funny Mr. Who!!
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- canyncarvr
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Pics: I'll get some of the seals. ..and some measurements to go with..pre/post machining.
..note to self...take a pic of the arbor, too.
Note to anyone else interested: If you don't see them in a day or two...yell at me.
Thanks.
Ha! Thanks for the s-p-e-e-d c-h-a-n-g-e....
..note to self...take a pic of the arbor, too.
Note to anyone else interested: If you don't see them in a day or two...yell at me.
Thanks.
Ha! Thanks for the s-p-e-e-d c-h-a-n-g-e....
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- canyncarvr
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OK. Here goes. Sorry about the pics. Macro-focus shots are not something my camera does at all well...
First up...a (blurry) pic of the OEM seal/bearing assy. Not of a lot of interest I suppose..but obviously a bearing that is 4mm wider is not going to fit correctly (the double sealed caged bearing is 16mm, the oem is 12mm).
Next, two seals side by side...the machined on the left, the OEM on the right. You can see (it's shiny) where the seal was machined to fit the 16mm bearing. Nope! I didn't even clean-up the OEM seal for 'ya!!
If you didn't take note of the bearing PN (McMaster-Carr) earlier..here's a pic for you showing the PN in a descriptive format. Any bearing outfit knows what this is. Again..this is a caged bearing!! Fewer roller pins, but at least they are straight! in the race cup!
Below is the arbor the machinist made up for trimming the seals.
This a pic of the arbor with a seal attached. Well...I guess it goes on this way. Either way it's going to be a bit close. The only pic that turned out 1/2 right. Took six different tries (exposure/flash) /modifications to get it!
I measured the OEM seal 'thickness' at .178" and the trimmed seal at .120" at the outside. The machinist made a note on the bearing box, '-.057'. Again, this 'relief' is required for the extra 4mm width of double-lipped bearing.
Aha you say!! The trimmed amount doesn't fit with that 4mm number (.116" measured as trimmed, 4mm = .157").
Nope, it don't. No one said the OEM setup was particularly finely engineered, did they?
When I installed the seals with the metal trimmed, I did need to trim the inner rubber lip. Figured that going into the deal. Again, the problem is not keeping junk out at the outer diameter..it's letting junk IN at the INNER diameter.
Yes, this doesn't fix the whole thing. There are still problem areas concerning contamination of the bearing/sleeve, but this works a whole lot better than the OEM configuration.
Any questions?
BTW...640x480s of all pics in the gallery.
First up...a (blurry) pic of the OEM seal/bearing assy. Not of a lot of interest I suppose..but obviously a bearing that is 4mm wider is not going to fit correctly (the double sealed caged bearing is 16mm, the oem is 12mm).
Next, two seals side by side...the machined on the left, the OEM on the right. You can see (it's shiny) where the seal was machined to fit the 16mm bearing. Nope! I didn't even clean-up the OEM seal for 'ya!!
If you didn't take note of the bearing PN (McMaster-Carr) earlier..here's a pic for you showing the PN in a descriptive format. Any bearing outfit knows what this is. Again..this is a caged bearing!! Fewer roller pins, but at least they are straight! in the race cup!
Below is the arbor the machinist made up for trimming the seals.
This a pic of the arbor with a seal attached. Well...I guess it goes on this way. Either way it's going to be a bit close. The only pic that turned out 1/2 right. Took six different tries (exposure/flash) /modifications to get it!
I measured the OEM seal 'thickness' at .178" and the trimmed seal at .120" at the outside. The machinist made a note on the bearing box, '-.057'. Again, this 'relief' is required for the extra 4mm width of double-lipped bearing.
Aha you say!! The trimmed amount doesn't fit with that 4mm number (.116" measured as trimmed, 4mm = .157").
Nope, it don't. No one said the OEM setup was particularly finely engineered, did they?
When I installed the seals with the metal trimmed, I did need to trim the inner rubber lip. Figured that going into the deal. Again, the problem is not keeping junk out at the outer diameter..it's letting junk IN at the INNER diameter.
Yes, this doesn't fix the whole thing. There are still problem areas concerning contamination of the bearing/sleeve, but this works a whole lot better than the OEM configuration.
Any questions?
BTW...640x480s of all pics in the gallery.
Last edited by canyncarvr on 02:20 pm Dec 01 2005, edited 1 time in total.
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- canyncarvr
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I'll save some for 'ya ski for your next trip up to go riding!
I'm glad ya'll appreciate it! I made a special stop at the store to pick it up just for the photo shoot!
Well, of course I didn't.
I'm glad ya'll appreciate it! I made a special stop at the store to pick it up just for the photo shoot!
Well, of course I didn't.
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- canyncarvr
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Suspension maintenance this weekend. The bottom shock bearing is holding up MUCH better than the OEM setup did. These pics are after close to 1000 miles. The OEM bearing would be toast at this interval.
First, the sleeve. This is an OEM sleeve..NOT a SS made to fit sleeve (I've used them in this application before).
The wear shown does seem a bit odd to me. It appears to be roller marks made by an uncaged (needles side by side). The bearing used IS a caged bearing:
The rollers are spaced considerably farther apart than an uncaged bearing. I DID wonder if the caged spacing would increase the roller load to the extent this particular type of double sealed bearing would not work.
I did not take note of WHERE the marks were. I didn't expect to seem them..didn't notice them until after I had the sleeve out. Presumeably the marks are on the top of the sleeve, that being where the most load is going to be felt.
Anyway, I'm happy with it. I have only once found a decent bottom shock bearing (OEM) when servicing the Unitrack knuckle.
This setup works much, MUCH better. At least in my riding environs.
Waterproof BelRay grease was used, btw. I'll likely try some of that super-d-duper HydroSyn-70 next time...just to see how IT works.
First, the sleeve. This is an OEM sleeve..NOT a SS made to fit sleeve (I've used them in this application before).
The wear shown does seem a bit odd to me. It appears to be roller marks made by an uncaged (needles side by side). The bearing used IS a caged bearing:
The rollers are spaced considerably farther apart than an uncaged bearing. I DID wonder if the caged spacing would increase the roller load to the extent this particular type of double sealed bearing would not work.
I did not take note of WHERE the marks were. I didn't expect to seem them..didn't notice them until after I had the sleeve out. Presumeably the marks are on the top of the sleeve, that being where the most load is going to be felt.
Anyway, I'm happy with it. I have only once found a decent bottom shock bearing (OEM) when servicing the Unitrack knuckle.
This setup works much, MUCH better. At least in my riding environs.
Waterproof BelRay grease was used, btw. I'll likely try some of that super-d-duper HydroSyn-70 next time...just to see how IT works.
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