FMF Gnarly Pipe Woods vs. Desert

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cwereley
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FMF Gnarly Pipe Woods vs. Desert

Post by cwereley »

Looking to add a pipe to my 2003 KDX 220. Have looked thru the threads and hear a lot about the Torque pipe and Rev pipe. Upon looking at FMF site, don't see Rev pipe for KDX 220.

Is the Gnarly Woods = Torque Pipe?
and Gnarly Desert = Rev pipe?

If not, what is the difference between the Gnarly Woods and Gnarly Desert? From what I read, I would be better off with Rev pipe for a 220, and a Torque pipe for 200.

Thank you in advance.
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scheckaet
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Post by scheckaet »

yep and yep
plb
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Post by plb »

Yes, I agree.

I rode 2 years my 220 with a Woods pipe in heavy section at low speed (rocks, trees, woods, hard hills to climb) and since I have my Rev, it's hard to ride so easily (the Woods is like an autoclutch... you never stall, the motor never dead, is always alive).

BUT, I have so much Top End and so much punch with the Rev, I have to be a better rider in slow-speed with the Rev, BUT I have an upgrade (top rev) that I NEVER have with the Woods.

KDX220 FMF =
Beginner and intermediate rider = Woods/Torque
Intermediate an pro rider = Desert/Rev

Like I heard here:
«Come on now, keeping that rev will teach you clutch control and make you better.»
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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

To know which one you're looking at (because a lot of riders don't know..and will sell you a 'Gnarly' pipe...which doesn't mean anything in regard to performance profile): The torque pipe is smaller at the bell than is the rev. The torque is 11" or so around...the rev 14".

..dents not included..... :wink:

AND...I'm sure that holds true even in Kanuck-land. Well...except maybe for Quebec. Yanno they're kind'a weird over there........ :grin: A lot of 'em speak some kind'a fourin langwage!

You want fries with that?

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Post by Wudscrasher »

>|<>QBB<
plb wrote:
KDX220 FMF =
Beginner and intermediate rider = Woods/Torque
Intermediate an pro rider = Desert/Rev

Like I heard here:
«Come on now, keeping that rev will teach you clutch control and make you better.»
"Beginner and intermediate rider = Woods/Torque"

Bullshit.

"Intermediate an(sp) pro rider = Desert/Rev"

Pffffft...Bullshit, too.

Depends on what gear you want to ride in most. Look at the terrain you ride in most. Pick your pipe. 2nd-3rd gear lug? Get the Torque, you'll ride all day in 3rd. More open terrain? 4th-5th? Get the Rev. Pick your poison, and your motor will thank you. Neither pipe makes you beginner, intermediate, or pro and none of them makes you any better as a rider.

I have a 220, I have a woods/torque, I have 13:51 gearing, and I ride tight Colorado singletrack and the high Utah desert. Pick a pipe and deal with the limitations of each, but neither classifies your riding into "Beginner" or "Pro". That is poor advise, plb. I know your experience is different, as is mine, but this guy is looking for n00b advise, not experienced. No disrespect intended, but don't classify us experienced riders with different pipe set-ups you deem 'beginner', well, as beginners. We're not. I hope everyone sets up their bike for THEM, with guidance from us, to personalize their bike for their riding style & conditions. When you say you have to be a "better rider in slow-speed conditions", I read that as "a ****-ton of clutch-work expending energy that can better be used elsewhere." Especially on a 100-mile ride, as I'm used to.

To the OP, search around this site to decide what would work best for you, and disregard any mention of "Beginner" or "Pro" pipes. Either would certainly wake up your KDX! At what point it awakes, is up to your riding conditions and riding style. Good luck.
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Jeb
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Post by Jeb »

I moved from the rev pipe from the stocker soon after getting my 220.

MY OPINION:

Bottom end - My opinion is that you don't loose anything on the bottom compared to the stocker; in fact, the rev pipe gave me more power throughout, including the bottom end.

Top end - no question that you gain more power at the upper RPMs and you'll noticeably extend the top end, i.e. the power keeps on where it used to flatten out.

I currently have RB mods, etc, etc, -- and I've never owned/tried a woods pipe on a 220 -- but I distinctly remember the impact that the rev pipe had and don't recall a loss of low end. That stated, some important things to remember to the most out of the pipe change whatever pipe you choose:

Open up the airflow: Remove the snorkel and drill a few 1/2 holes in the airbox lid or remove it altogether (it does, however, become noisier with the lid remove). This is free.

Boyesen Power Reeds: GET THEM and replace the stock reeds. There are reed alternatives and those alternatives may be even better, but you can't loose with the power reeds and at $30 or so. They are "dual staged" meaning that you get a little more airflow at lower throttle openings. That'll tend to lean things up at lower RPMs and that'll work to your advantage.

Jetting: read up on it and DO IT. Look for "throttle chop" or "WOT" or "wide open throttle chop". Get 142, 140, and 138 main jets and 40 and 38 pilot jets; cost wll be less than $25. Once you've got the new pipe in place, more airflow, and better reeds, you will think you have a different bike when you've got the jetting right. You will want to do the jetting with a clean air filter and clean silencer.

I'm sure you'll be thrilled replacing the stocker; doing the above will make the most of the change. If you go with the rev you'll still have great low end (that's what you get with a 220) and you'll get the improved high end, taking better advantage of the powervalve+ rev range. If your riding is mostly lugging around in the nasty stuff you can replace the stock 13-tooth front sprocket with a 12-tooth sprocket for under $20; you'll have to pretty much come to a stop to stall it that way!

I can't help but comment on the whole beginner/advanced rider thing. Neither the 200 or the 220 is exactly a savage power-hit monster, waiting to be unleashed at the change of a pipe, so I doubt you'd end up thinking, "Oh jeez, this pipe is too much!" I THINK this whole thing applies more to the 200, though, since they're pipier in the first place. A beginner - like a young, first-time rider - that encounters lots of steep hills, mud, etc would likely benefit more from the woods pipe on a 200. In that sense, I don't think it's unreasonable to distinguish the pipes in such a manner. With the 220, though, the rev pipe adds what I think is missing in the first place.

By the way cwerelay - welcome to the site, you're in the right place for your KDX.

And after you've spent some time on this website you'll notice that it's rare to see the insult-hurling, i.e "bullshit" this and "bullshit" that. Participants on this website - while they will often challenge comments/ideas - usually refrain from being deprecating. It's uncalled for and detracts from the intent of these threads.
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cwereley
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Post by cwereley »

All,

Thanx for your comments and advice. Acually just picked up the 2003 KDX 220 and it's bone stock. Have been away from the off road scene for a few years since I sold my old XR600R a few years ago.... actually more than a few years.... I caught the off road bug again after riding a friend's bike last year. I have always liked the KDX, and jumped when one in good shape came up for sale.

I have been getting and appreciating a lot of KDX info from the site. Will be getting the Gnarly Desert pipe and FMF silencer when the weather gets nicer. Gonna do the air box mod and get some Boyensen reeds as well. For starters.....

C
2003 KDX 220
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Post by gtoron »

Just pull the pipe off completely... mine runs better that way :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :wink: :grin:
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Post by Ondatrail »

>|<>QBB<
gtoron wrote:Just pull the pipe off completely... mine runs better that way :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :wink: :grin:
Started my bike once without any exhaust :wink:

Needless to say that was the fastest reach for the kill switch yet :lol: :lol:
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Post by jc7622 »

canyncarvr wrote: (because a lot of riders don't know..and will sell you a 'Gnarly' pipe...which doesn't mean anything in regard to performance profile)
That's how I wound up with a rev for my 200. I'm looking around for a used woods pipe to try to see which one I like better - then I will sell the other one.
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Post by Rob »

When you go to the Desert pipe [rev pipe] a 220 will 1. overheat, and 2. blow the stock piston.

The rev pipe is worth about 8-10 hp and the motor in stock trim is not up to that difference.

1. Drain your coolant, flush with hot water, totally dry your cooling system with either compressed air or "suck" dry with a shop vac - then refill with Evans propylene glycol coolant. [NOT a PG coolant from your local auto parts store - they contain water] 2. Install a Weisco forged piston - the OEM cast piston will shatter and destroy your engine.
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Post by Jeb »

Rob makes a great point that no one's mentioned yet - if you have the stock piston replace it with a Wiseco.

But this should be done REGARDLESS of whether you add a rev pipe or not.

I've never overheated my 220 and, yes, I've wringed the snot out of it. I do believe folks at higher altitudes run into this problem. Do searches, I believe others have had success with a higher pressure rad cap.

And the Evans

http://www.evanscooling.com/main27.htm
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Post by plb »

http://www.liquidperformance.com/produc ... oolant.htm

Hey Rob,

This one is good as Evans?

And yes I have the Wisco piston with my Rev :mrgreen:
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Post by markm »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:To know which one you're looking at ... The torque pipe is smaller at the bell than is the rev. The torque is 11" or so around...the rev 14".
I called Fredette for the information, FMF could not answer me.

The largest circumference on a "Torque" / "Woods" model K35 / #0057 is approx 13.3". There is a weld seam at this point, easy to see.

The largest circumference on a "Rev" / "Desert" model K30 / #0056 is approx 14.3".

The model number is supposed to be stamped on the frame hanger tab, I cannot see mine, I haven't taken the tank or pipe off find the stamping.

Not finding my tape measure, I took an 11.5" piece of notebook paper and cut off a strip to wrap around my pipe. I had a ~3" gap between the ends, thus determined the 14"+ size and that my FMF Gnarly is a Rev model. I'm buying a different bike that has a Torque model, I will measure it soon (visually is much smaller).

Cheers,

M^2
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Post by kicknrocks »

If I may, I'd like to clarify what I believe plb was saying;

I am new to the game, with my month old KDX being my first bike in about twenty years (at the tender age of 32). I have done all the engine mods listed here, including the desert (rev), which was the first. That mod had the single greatest performance gain of any.

I just rode my first pretty gnarly (no pun) western riding today, with a lot of really long, rutted out, steep hilclimbs (500 plus vertical feet) whose terrain resembled something like jagged bowling balls dumped out of the back of a dumptruck over a load of firewood.

What jlb meant was this; in those conditions, with a rev pipe, you're not "lugging" up anything, like you may be more apt to do with a woods pipe. You need to be heavy on the throttle, and quick on the clutch. when you lose your powerband, it's time to either shift, or turn around and try again. This makes it a "pro" pipe in the sense that not everyone is comfortable hammering up an ugly hill, banging down gears every time they lose the pipe. "Lugging" up the same hill, while no simple feat, is much more tame, and would be much more practical with a torque pipe.

Riding the desert pipe in the woods requires a degree of balls. You need to be willing to drop the hammer when you want your bike to go. If you can overcome that, you can have the best of both worlds.

I am certain that there are conditions that prevent the best rider from dropping the hammer on a top-end-heavy bike. This post is not meant to contradict that fact.

If I lived on Long Island, I'd probably take my pipe off too. It's not like I'd be riding anywhere. Incidentally, after a long night of putting stuff back together this week, I fired up my bike with the new piston, carb and head, without the pipe. My first thought was "damn, those mods really made the bike loud."

BTW, don't even bother calling FMF; you'll just end up feeling like you are keeping the cali-girl who answers the phone from texting one of her boyfriends bruh. You'll get much better info here.

Search the general discussion threads. I started one on here (I remember it was just before or on 4:20) that was all about these pipes. Lots of good info.
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Post by md80drvr »

My 220 does great with the "woods" pipe. Has plenty of power everywhere just not quite the same as a 200 up on top. This of course is due to the carb. I'm sending mine off to RB this week. I'm getting the head done, carb. done, flywheel weight from Fredette and 607 reeds. I want a tractor for the tight Tennessee woods and big gnarly hills I ride. I don't need a big explosive top end. I rode a KTM 380 for 8 years. I'm over it. The KDX's are such great bikes that can be made to do almost anything for a little coin. Bravo Kawasaki!
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Post by lemmy »

>|<>QBB<
md80drvr wrote:My 220 does great with the "woods" pipe. Has plenty of power everywhere just not quite the same as a 200 up on top. This of course is due to the carb. I'm sending mine off to RB this week. I'm getting the head done, carb. done, flywheel weight from Fredette and 607 reeds. I want a tractor for the tight Tennessee woods and big gnarly hills I ride. I don't need a big explosive top end. I rode a KTM 380 for 8 years. I'm over it. The KDX's are such great bikes that can be made to do almost anything for a little coin. Bravo Kawasaki!
Where in TN do you ride? Do you ride at Windrock?
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Post by md80drvr »

Hello lemmy, I ride mostly in the Livingston area near Alpine mountain. Where are you located? Drop me a line if you are interested in riding some "good" trails. md80drvr@nctc.com. Frank.
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