Couple of top end questions

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cleoent
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Couple of top end questions

Post by cleoent »

Hi everyone again!

I have a couple of questions regarding my quest to do my first top end job. I'm doing both bikes at the same time. Last night my friends came over and we took off the pistons.

What more do i need to do from this point? Do i need to get to the valves or anything?

Thanks :) the manual isn't very clear on what is done on a top end rebuild and what's not. For what it's worth, from my untrained eyes both top ends look clean and fresh.
1990 KDX200, 2007 KTM 200XC, 2004 TTR125L
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TopperHarley
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Post by TopperHarley »

run the edge of your fingernail around the bore to feel for any deep scores. Especially around the intake and exhaust ports. Check the piston and cylinder for any scuff wear patches. if you have access to a micrometer, you may want to measure the cylinder in different spots. compare side to side and see how it compares to front to back. If the crank or wrist pin bearings have excessive wear it can actually oval your bore. I disassemble the kips and clean all carbon off the ports and parts with xylene and polish with fine wire brush on a dremel tool. Make sure you do not damage the packing/o-ring on the right shaft. xylene or carb cleaner will attack the rubber o-rings and seals. If you measurements are good and there is no extreme scoring or scuffing, no need to send out for resurfacing. Plated cylinders do not get honed. Honing will damage the plating. You need to break the glaze on the cylinder with a green scour pad. I do mine wet at a 30 degree(i think 30 deg.anyway been a while) angle in both directions. Just enough to break the glaze and give the cylinder a cross hatch pattern throughout. This gives the new rings something to bite into for proper seating. Next you want to rinse well and dry. some guys run them through a rinse cycle in the dishwasher and then heat dry in the oven. I think a good rinsing and a blow dryer on hot works fine. Now you are ready to reassemble your KIPS. Make sure you lubricate your parts and use proper torque. Stud lock if and where your manual suggests. before installing ring on piston you should insert it into the bore and check for adequate gap clearance where the ring meets itself. Now install on Piston. I think the lettering on the rings goes up but I forget. Brain cell count in the memory dept. has suffered greatly ovr the years. Install piston to connecting rod with new wrist pin and new wrist pin bearing. Install the retaining circlips into the piston. Make sure they click all the way into the grove with the mouth of the clip pointing up or down. never front or back. If you install them with the mouth opening to the front or back, the cetrifical force of the piston traveling up and down can actually compress the clip enough to pop out and seize your piston. Game Over...all that work for nothin. ok ...I got to go to bed that should get you started. OBTW you can just throw a piston in and go without doing half of this and the bike runs fine for months to come. I have thrown a top end in a buddys bike in a few hours so he could take it riding the next day but I would much prefer this method.
If you run into Heidi, have her look me up in her little black book and give me a call.
Im feelin a little wild today.
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2005 KDX220 mine
2003 KDX220 mine(under construction)
1998 KDX220 1/2 Brother-in-laws, soon his own
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Post by gtoron »

Check out the online manual at the top of the page. It is excellent! :grin:
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Post by Indawoods »

>|<>QBB<
Indawoods wrote:Cyclepedia.com is proud to announce our latest manual covering the 1989-1994 Kawasaki KDX 200. This manual fills the gap left by our newer KDX manual.

http://www.cyclepedia.com/amember/go.php?r=57&i=l8

Thanks for your support of the Cyclepedia.com project so far.

Len Nelson
Cyclepedia.com :grin:
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Post by TopperHarley »

Just curios, what made you decide to change the top ends? How long has it been? Did you put a compression tester on them? are the pistons you removed aftermarket or stock? And what condition are the rings in?
If you run into Heidi, have her look me up in her little black book and give me a call.
Im feelin a little wild today.
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/GATEWAY2-STROKE
2005 KDX220 mine
2003 KDX220 mine(under construction)
1998 KDX220 1/2 Brother-in-laws, soon his own
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Post by cleoent »

i am using the online manual for both!
1990 KDX200, 2007 KTM 200XC, 2004 TTR125L
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Post by cleoent »

>|<>QBB<
TopperHarley wrote:run the edge of your fingernail around the bore to feel for any deep scores. Especially around the intake and exhaust ports. Check the piston and cylinder for any scuff wear patches. if you have access to a micrometer, you may want to measure the cylinder in different spots. compare side to side and see how it compares to front to back. If the crank or wrist pin bearings have excessive wear it can actually oval your bore. I disassemble the kips and clean all carbon off the ports and parts with xylene and polish with fine wire brush on a dremel tool. Make sure you do not damage the packing/o-ring on the right shaft. xylene or carb cleaner will attack the rubber o-rings and seals. If you measurements are good and there is no extreme scoring or scuffing, no need to send out for resurfacing. Plated cylinders do not get honed. Honing will damage the plating. You need to break the glaze on the cylinder with a green scour pad. I do mine wet at a 30 degree(i think 30 deg.anyway been a while) angle in both directions. Just enough to break the glaze and give the cylinder a cross hatch pattern throughout. This gives the new rings something to bite into for proper seating. Next you want to rinse well and dry. some guys run them through a rinse cycle in the dishwasher and then heat dry in the oven. I think a good rinsing and a blow dryer on hot works fine. Now you are ready to reassemble your KIPS. Make sure you lubricate your parts and use proper torque. Stud lock if and where your manual suggests. before installing ring on piston you should insert it into the bore and check for adequate gap clearance where the ring meets itself. Now install on Piston. I think the lettering on the rings goes up but I forget. Brain cell count in the memory dept. has suffered greatly ovr the years. Install piston to connecting rod with new wrist pin and new wrist pin bearing. Install the retaining circlips into the piston. Make sure they click all the way into the grove with the mouth of the clip pointing up or down. never front or back. If you install them with the mouth opening to the front or back, the cetrifical force of the piston traveling up and down can actually compress the clip enough to pop out and seize your piston. Game Over...all that work for nothin. ok ...I got to go to bed that should get you started. OBTW you can just throw a piston in and go without doing half of this and the bike runs fine for months to come. I have thrown a top end in a buddys bike in a few hours so he could take it riding the next day but I would much prefer this method.
thanks! This is what i needed. Is there any need to get to the valves?
1990 KDX200, 2007 KTM 200XC, 2004 TTR125L
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Post by Indawoods »

It is not clear about what is done? :hmm:

Replace the Head gasket, piston and rings, wrist pin and clips. Clean the KIPS mechanism well. Reassemble with new gaskets and torque conponents to spec.
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Post by cleoent »

Right now basically i've gotten down to the piston and taken it off. On both bikes.

The manual and pictorial show getting to the valves, and i wanted to know if this is necessary for a simple top end job, or is just there for instructions on how to do it if necessary. :)
1990 KDX200, 2007 KTM 200XC, 2004 TTR125L
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Post by Indawoods »

A 2 stroke doesn't have valves... it has reeds. Are you sure you have the right manual?
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Post by TopperHarley »

if they look carboned up I would clean them. If not to bad, I wouldnt worry bout it. Make sure the actuate/open and close easily by hand. If you had spooge leaking from the Kips shaft boot, you need new seals. If it is difficult to turn, you should inspect and clean them. If gummed up, it puts excessive pressure on the actuating assembly down in the case. It can cause excessive wear and eventually failure. You dont want that. It just happend to one of us recently. You may want to look at the thread and read it. the bit about supporting the KIPS shaft when removing and installing the reverse threaded nut is very important.

this is not the thread, just a few helful things you should know.

http://www.dirtrider.net/justkdx/kipshaft.html

http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/bakimseytopend.html THIS ONE IS GOOD for newer bike



http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread ... did=110099
Last edited by TopperHarley on 11:06 am Nov 07 2007, edited 7 times in total.
If you run into Heidi, have her look me up in her little black book and give me a call.
Im feelin a little wild today.
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/GATEWAY2-STROKE
2005 KDX220 mine
2003 KDX220 mine(under construction)
1998 KDX220 1/2 Brother-in-laws, soon his own
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Post by TopperHarley »

A 2 stroke doesn't have valves... it has reeds. Are you sure you have the right manual?

I thought he was referring to the exhaust valves and ports. :neutral:
If you run into Heidi, have her look me up in her little black book and give me a call.
Im feelin a little wild today.
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/GATEWAY2-STROKE
2005 KDX220 mine
2003 KDX220 mine(under construction)
1998 KDX220 1/2 Brother-in-laws, soon his own
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Post by Indawoods »

You mean the KIPS governing flap?
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Post by TopperHarley »

main exhaust valve...flapper ....johnson doohicky batwing thing. yeah...thats it.....the thing that gets all carboned up and want to stop moving. :lol:
If you run into Heidi, have her look me up in her little black book and give me a call.
Im feelin a little wild today.
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/GATEWAY2-STROKE
2005 KDX220 mine
2003 KDX220 mine(under construction)
1998 KDX220 1/2 Brother-in-laws, soon his own
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Post by cleoent »

>|<>QBB<
Indawoods wrote:A 2 stroke doesn't have valves... it has reeds. Are you sure you have the right manual?
http://www.dirtrider.net/justkdx/

under the tech tips there the top end pictorial mentions valves. Do i have to go this far? I'm using this in conjunction with the online manuals...
1990 KDX200, 2007 KTM 200XC, 2004 TTR125L
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Post by Indawoods »

It is showing the KIPS valve... I guess by definition it is a valve but not what I picture when talking engines and valves.

If your KIPS does not move freely... then yes... it would be advisable to disassemble and clean the enitire KIPS assembly.... not just the so called valve.
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Post by TopperHarley »

this is a good one for the 95-06 if you over looked it in the previous post.

http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/bakimseytopend.html


and if we wer talking open heart surgery??? valves will still be valves. intake,exhaust, 2stroke, 4 stroke, diesel, turbine, suspension,human heart, etc.

valve
Pronunciation: ˈvalv
Function: noun
3 a: any of numerous mechanical devices by which the flow of liquid, gas, or loose material in bulk may be started, stopped, or regulated by a movable part that opens, shuts, or partially obstructs one or more ports or passageways. :wink:
If you run into Heidi, have her look me up in her little black book and give me a call.
Im feelin a little wild today.
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/GATEWAY2-STROKE
2005 KDX220 mine
2003 KDX220 mine(under construction)
1998 KDX220 1/2 Brother-in-laws, soon his own
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Post by Indawoods »

BTW... I would rather you use Brian's page vs. what DRN has to say.

http://www.bryankimsey.com/dirtbikes/KDX/topend.htm
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Post by TopperHarley »

Yes, that one looks even better
If you run into Heidi, have her look me up in her little black book and give me a call.
Im feelin a little wild today.
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/GATEWAY2-STROKE
2005 KDX220 mine
2003 KDX220 mine(under construction)
1998 KDX220 1/2 Brother-in-laws, soon his own
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Post by cleoent »

>|<>QBB<
Indawoods wrote:BTW... I would rather you use Brian's page vs. what DRN has to say.

http://www.bryankimsey.com/dirtbikes/KDX/topend.htm
that makes it a lot clearer!

So if i open the Kips cover and it looks ok should i not go through that part?

Thanks so much everyone!
1990 KDX200, 2007 KTM 200XC, 2004 TTR125L
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