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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: your search..

So...you know it's not 'in line' with the piston..and not 'round', right? And...if any hone job looks round...it's wrong...right?

The color of Scotchbrite matters...right?

BTW...the word 'fabled' doesn't necessarily mean untrue.

..right?


CM: Are these Wiseco clips and a Wiseco pin? You know of the 'too long' Wiseco pins..right? Any chance you have one'a those?


Frankly, I've never understood the idea of clip orientation...not the 12:00 part of it anyway. My simple understanding of physics says that something at rest tends to stay that way. Given that the greatest acceleration during a piston cycle occurs after ignition, the piston gets pushed the hardest down. The clips are going to tend to stay 'up'..so if there is a gap at the top of the clip, the clip will tend to compress INTO that space. That isn't going to happen when the gap is placed at 6:00. Piston accelleration is going to tend to SEAT such a clip..not UNseat it.

Hence...I vote for 6 in the o'clock.

I had a piston clip come out in my bracket car once. I have NO idea how such a thing happens...but the fact is...it does (kind of like the 'fabled' 220 OEM piston destruction 'stories'..that evidently no one in Canada except Canadian Dave has ever heard of). I used Spirolocks in my V8 rebuild. If such a lock was available on my KDX I'd use'em there, too!

THEY aren't coming out.

RIGHT!

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Wazowski
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Post by Wazowski »

Yes I did a search on this site using the words "scotch AND brite" and I now have a full understanding of the colors and techniques of using scotch brite to break the glaze on the cylinder wall.

I will use Prestone 2 cycle chain saw oil for break-in. I have opted to do the low impact 20 min ride and cool procedure.

And yes, it will be Wiseco piston, clips, wrist pin, bearing and rings, and Cometic gasket set whenever it gets here. Still on back order. I heard there was a huge run on piston kits for 220's in Canada of all places.

Coincidence?

Also I think your logic is sound and will install the clips with opening facing down...savvy?

Anything I left out? :rolleyes:

Thanx cc :wink:

Waz
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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

Left out?

Maybe your motion pro cylinder wrench?

Where'd the Prestone 2-cycle idea come from?

I've never done it...but 'common knowledge' sometimes says to run a hi ratio for break-in.

That's bogus.

Don't run the bike on a stand/in the garage, either. Not without a good fan on the rads.

I think the 'hard' break-in idea works. I did that on my new Banshee..and it runs considerably better than my older Banshee..which I broke in more along the 'heat cycle/throttle sensitive' method.

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Post by Wazowski »

Re: Where'd the Prestone 2-cycle idea come from?

I happen to have some on the shelf in the garage. I was using THAT instead of the Motul I'm using now when I first bought the bike. I was determined NOT to spend a lot on fancy schmancy racing oil...my kid couldn't stand the smell so he got me using the Motul.

My BiL bought a whole case of YamaLube racing oil that I think is a synth blend but I want a good ring seal so it seems like "dino" oil is preferred.

I'll ride it around the yard and up the street. I live on 7 acres of hilly and flat plus my buddy on top o the hill is backed up against 10,000 acres of BLM land. No shortage of riding within a mile of my home!

I'll search "hard" break-in and see what gives.

Waz
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Wazowski
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Post by Wazowski »

I just read your MotoMan link and what he sez makes good sense. I just my give this a try.

We have a short track on the lower 5 acres and it would be the perfect venue for this hard break-in procedure. Do a warm up lap, shut ur down for a few minutes then 15 minute, variable speed/load acceleration/deceleration maybe even a few jumps thrown in for good measure!

Well maybe no jumps...don't want to over rev it...

Still way more fun then the "easy" break-in!

WaHoo! I can hardly wait! :mrgreen:

Waz
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Post by KDXSean »

Re: (kind of like the 'fabled' 220 OEM piston destruction 'stories'..that evidently no one in Canada except Canadian Dave has ever heard of). I used Spirolocks in my V8 rebuild. If such a lock was available on my KDX I'd use'em there, too!

Hey, I'm Canadian, eh and the 220 OEM piston problem is no fable. Didn't happen to me, but I've seen pictures.

Sean
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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

Being in Ottawa...and that kind'a close to K'beq..where English is only a 14th language, please allow me to dissuade you from your putting the shoe on the wrong foot. ...so to speak.

One definition of 'fable' is legendary, or 'so celebrated as to having taken on the nature of a legend.'

Which brings us to 'celebrated' which doesn't necessarily mean having danced around on a tabletop with someone's underwear on your head.

..although it MIGHT mean that! :hmm:



Re: '..and what he sez makes good sense.'

That is the fly in the ointment..as it makes sense to me, too...and that is likely cause for concern in the real world.

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Colorado Mike
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Post by Colorado Mike »

CC,

My wrist pin is a wiseco, as for it being too long, the clips do fit, but I don't think there is much if any free space between them and the pin. I don't know what it's supposed to be like.
Mike

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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

I don't know what the length is supposed to be..and measuring an OEM pin wouldn't tell you a thing.

This is only anecdotal, but what I've heard is that a Wiseco pin that's too long (and they were distributed a couple or so years ago) doesn't give you the S-N-A-P you should get when the clip seats. I would imagine you might be able to see the difference between the two clips..one of them having been seated without any interference from the pin.

With the 'too long' pins the clips didn't seat well enough..and they DID come out..the ring orientation not being part of that problem.

I'm looking at a Pro-X piston..there is quite a gap between the pin end and the clip (with pin snugged to opposite clip). .070" or so.

Here's my concern..that clip placement may have one position better than the other..but having a clip actually come OUT due to 'improper' placement I'd think would be rare. One of yours came out..was on the way out.

I'm wondering if you have one'a those 'too long' wrist pins.....:hmm:

**edit** Ooops. I just realized the piston I'm looking at is a Yamaha piston out of my RD. I'll look at one of my KDX pistons tonight.

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Wazowski
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Worst possible news...

Post by Wazowski »

The subject of this thread was originally about my nephews bike that i put in the shop. They discovered that the piston skirt broke and took out the cylinder wall, crank shaft, rod and bearing...

Well they called today with the news...cracked casing. :shock: Not able to salvage, new case $500 bucks.

I'll be going by today to pick it up in a box...too bad... :cry:

Anyone know of a salvaged engine anywher we can rebuild?

Waz
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canyncarvr
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Post by canyncarvr »

Grumps link for a couple weeks back looks pretty darn good about now, I 'spose?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KAWASAKI ... enameZWDVW


If that's the kind of price you can pick up an engine for...just keep an eye out for another one. Can't beat that price (considering the engine to be in decent shape).

I don't see anything on eBay right now.

Maybe give FRP a call?

Maybe consider another bike altogether. Look at the spares you would have!!

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Post by Wazowski »

Funny but a few weeks ago I ran across that very engine on Ebay.

If I had known then what I know now I would have jumped all over that thing! At the time we didn't even know what was wrong with the one in my nephews bike.

I guess it's not so funny... :cry:

Does FRP sell "short blocks"?
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Wazowski
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Post by Wazowski »

I guess it would come down to what year of KDX we could replace it with. That would be the only way to make use of the old one as a spare.

Would a 200 engine fit?

Hell if it's gonna be 2 grand for a used bike it would be cheaper to fix the engine!

Maybe I should buy this one off him then I would have the spare parts!

Thinkl he'd take 500 for it?

My problem...I'm broke.

Guess we'll part it out to you guys...

Anybody need anything?

Waz
"Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads!" - Emmet Brown
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