Comparing the KDXs to the KTM 200 (and the GasGas EC300)

[2001kdx]

Those things are sweet, got one for tight ST

Gotta get out there on a 200 rick. The only surefire way.

[Jeb]

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I think you think to much. Get rid of all your power worries and buy a ATK 700 Intimidator, all the power you could ever need.

OMG, when I heard of the ATK 700 I was thinkin' quad - that's a freakin' 700cc 2t on 2 wheels, WOW!

[thebleakness]

Can you say Dune monster? Yeah, if I ever find one for sale in my area I'm going for it. Not many people can say that they've ridden a 700cc 2 stroke motorcycle. Imagine when that powervalve opens....wow.

[IdahoCharley]

Not many people can say that they've ridden a 700cc 2 stroke motorcycle.

While I have never driven a ATK 700 monster I did regularly ride a three cylinder 750 2-cycle motorcycle back in the 1970's. One of the first really quick bikes back in the day..... It would have been nice to have had brakes and decent tires. When you would get on it hard you would literally see the view behind you disappear into a big blue cloud. This also was prior to low smoke oil Ok it wasn't a dirt bike but still it was fun machine. A friend had a Kawasaki 500 triple 2-cycle bike which also screamed - don't know why I even brought this up - except to let the current generation know there were really a few bikes years ago that would get you blood rushing. Power Valves were non-existent - it was hang on for your life at all times because the power was not very predictable once the revs were up...

[fuzzy]

I do the head mod for the KTM 200 and carb work as well.

Oh yeah, one more thing...Just like I mentioned on the 250, I would opt for a 36mm RB'd carb on the KTM 200 as well. I'm sure it's 38/39 contributes to it's lack of low end....The KDX would lose A LOT as well w/ the same carb. It's a trade-off for gains in the top-end through overrev.

[AZRickD]

I borrowed an '04 KTM 200 XC this weekend. Got about twenty minutes on it, tops. It was as advertised. It felt like a 125 with something extra. It demanded to be ridden, at the very least, in the middle of the power band. It was very agile to the point of me over-controlling it for the first miles and even after that I felt like I was behind the curve on it. I kept letting the RPMs drop below where it wanted to be on shifts. The KDX wouldn't have had a problem.

I'm sure if someone is used to being on the pipe on single track, the 200 would be the bike to have. Certainly it would do nicely (for me) on an MX track where I (with little skillz) wasn't fighting the gearbox and the torque band. Strangely, despite all the good writings on the KTM 200, it was the only modern high-performance bike that I felt like I was slower than on the KDX. I'm sure I'd get used to it, but at present, not my cup of meat.

I also had a run on an -04 Husky WR 250 two-smoke. Surprisingly luggable motor. Even with what appeared to be a tall first gear in a five-speed tranny, just a bare crack of the throttle and I was climbing up a nice hill. Ergos felt odd.

So far, I'm having trouble saying no to an '08 KTM 250 XC (even with a 5-speed gear box). Perhaps I'll luck into a left-over Gas Gas and be done with this madness.

Rick

[Jeb]

^ good feedback on the 200 Rick . . . I rode one last summer while looking before I got the KDX and I concur with your comments - like a 125 on steroids, not your mosey-on-down-the-trail kinda bike

[2001kdx]

Personally I'm immediately turned off by the no-link rear suspension. Never rode a KTM though...

[fuzzy]

Can't really compare a closed ratio trans bike.....That's what makes the Husky "WR" so luggable...That and a history of producing 250's with very linear power. That's what makes the KDX what it is as well...Well, that and one of the best powervalve designs ever, oh yeah and proper use of carb for the application, and not having the motor start life as 125...

Any of the euro 250 wide trannied bikes are the only ones I respect outside of the KDX these days for a ST bike.

[thebleakness]

Personally I'm immediately turned off by the no-link rear suspension. Never rode a KTM though...

And why would you be turned off without trying it out? Linkage-less suspension means there is less stuff to constantly lube and maintain. Although it does provide a different feeling ride I think I could get used to it.

I'm thinking about moving to Germany next year as an exchange student. If I do do that I'm going to buy some sort of bike over there, GasGas, KTM, Husky, Husaberg, BMW, Aprillia, something and ride the enduros they have over there. If I end up going I'm going to make it a point to go to Erzberg, it might and probably will kill me but I might as well since I'll be over there.

[2001kdx]

RE: 'And why would you be turned off without trying it out?'

Because It's a stupid idea IMO. Linkage is good! There must be a reason why Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki have been using linkage for years, right?

Not saying they suck, because I've yet to ride one, just saying it's a turn off. Linkage helps create a rising rate of stiffness through the travel - not to mention how the bike would react to having someone 30+ pounds off of the ideal spring rate... Which is always going to be me

[Indawoods]

I had a KTM 250 EXC... the rear suspension works... but I would say that's about it. I didn't like the design ....

[AZRickD]

To reiterate, the KTM had me feeling very comfy blasting away on some rocky trails south of Flagstaff, Arizona last weekend. When I say rocky trails, I don't mean your rocky trails that have rocks separated by dirt or mud. Where you have dirt or mud, we have more rocks. It's rocks separated by other rock-like things.

The '07 250 XC (I don't know if the boingers are stock) gave me a very calm feeling and I naturally twisted the throttle more as I didn't perceive any impending doom. I felt the linkless swing arm working as it allowed the rear tire to move up and over a rock and then plant itself seemingly just on the other side of the rock. No skipping around. No launching into my backside.

My KDX is in need of a boinger service and I dropped it off at the shop today, so I can't give a comparison since it may have been suffering from bad shockage, but it didn't allow me to go as fast.

When I got off the KTM and back on the KDX, I twisted that throttle mightily to approach the speeds I had attained on the KTM. But it was like I was milking a nearly tapped-out dairy cow. There was juice, but not as much, and though my speed was less on the KDX, my apprehension (such that it was), was greater.

Yes, after 15 months of KDX land, I can begin to say that the "Dangerously Modified" (tm) KDX220R is holding me back some.

That is not to say that the KTM is "all that." I've ridden an '07 Honda 450R/X and an '06 Yammie WR450 that put the '06 KTMs to shame (not sure about the '07/08), from front and rear on how it handled entry and exits into whoops and G-outs. But I really didn't like the motors on those bikes, and they don't turn so well for me.

The '07 suspension, and now the '08 frames on the KTMs are said to be impressively better than previous model years (which far too many riders have their unpleasant exposures to KTM). So, I have to make my decision on modern KTMs vs GG et al. Not what KTM was back in 2003.

Rick

[thebleakness]

I want to ride Vince's WR some time, I still remember being shown up by him on that bike. WOT in 6th gear on the KDX and he pulls up alongside me, looks over and pulls a wheelie and accelerates like I wasn't even moving. Keep in mind this was at 7k' and his bike was jetted for Phoenix elevation (3k?).

Rick, you should try my 450 again next time your up here. I put new bars on (not those cafe racer ones anymore) and took some time to play with the suspension. You may not like the motor right now (I thought mine was better than V's 07 btw) but ride it some more and try it out. It really is a fun bike IMO. One thing I've noticed though, that CRF likes to be ridden fast and hard, the faster and the harder it's ridden the better it becomes. Speed is definetly your friend on that bike.

BTW, when are you coming back up too Flagstaff? It's been raining alot here the past few days and is really really nice right now. Are you working/doing anything on Monday (labor day)? You should come up and experience some more incredible single track!

[wanaride]

Rick, I'm enjoying your well written descriptions of your KTM experiences. I think most everyone on this site would love to have one if they admitted it (except Vince); I know I would and your input may help steer me to my next bike.

Keep up the good work!!

[kawagumby]

C'mon guys, comparing anyone's 450 to a KDX 220 or 200 is outright silly. Horsepower and a stable chassis rule in the open, everyone knows that. It can even make a lack of riding talent seem unimportant. But in the really tight-technical stuff that real he-men crave, I have yet to find any bike that has a significant (or any) advantage over a well setup KDX.

The YZ-modified 02 WR426 I rode for 3 years could run away from just about anything in rough, more open situations, but was just another fat pig in the land of single track off camber drop-offs or rocky shelves. Same for the CRF450X, same for the CRF250X I rode for 2 years, even though it was closer. The only bike I've owned that was light and tractable enough to compare on the really tight stuff was an 03 YZ250F, and the ergos stunk as did the high-first, close-ratio tranny and high-altitude seat (though really fun to ride and do wheelies on ).

Frankly, if someone gave me a KTM200 I'd just sell it to some unsuspecting noob - ever notice that most cross-country races have no really tight technical sections anymore? That's so the guys riding KTM200's don't bottle-neck the course up with their fried clutches, blistered shifting toes, and exhausted bodies.

[tag220]

I have to mostly agree with kawagumby the guy I ride with has 05 exc 450 and a 08 250xc both bikes are very fun to ride wheelie on and go fast,climb hills. I was looking at a 08 300xcw for the woods but after many hours and miles on both bikes I found my 30ish hp kdx can hang with the big boys just fine. If the trails are open or fast and rocky I fall back but as soon as it gets muddy or tight I can beep my horn for him to move over. The 250 is alot better than the 450 in every situation but the xc has a semi close ratio trany that works in the wood but on more open trails and road falls short anything that you can run 45-50 mph for 5-10 min kills the bike almost like kdx with 12-50 gears. My next bike may be a ktm but it will not be my main or only woods bike I will always have my kdx so I can go fast in the woods and be relaxed

[AZRickD]

C'mon guys, comparing anyone's 450 to a KDX 220 or 200 is outright silly.

I don't know that anyone was offering up a 450 4T to "compare" to the KDX. And if they were, it doesn't reflect my angle in this thread. I'm not looking to "compare" a bike to the KDX. I am on a search to find my next bike.

The bikes I have ridden have certain characteristics that I have to first discover on my own, and then decide whether I can merely live with those characteristics or actually prosper with them.

Some seem to think that Arizona riding is "wide-open desert" riding. Maybe somewhere, but nowhere I've ever ridden (don't leave the I-17 corridor much, though). Our trails tend to be tight, rocky, hilly and technical. Rocks over rocks. KTM 200s do great here.

And while the KDX climbs really nicely, that Husky WR250 wowed me. There's a big dirtbike world out there and I intend to look into it. Somebody find me a Gas Gas !!

Rick

PS, Bleaker, how about the weekend after Labor Day?

[krazyinski]

This is all very good info, but lets not forget the physics of the situation. one 160 lb guy says the KDX is great and another 220 lb guy says it just wont move as Fast as the 450.

I have the same issue of what to get next. I like the KDX power and delivery of power. The KTM does like it fast and instills one to go faster with confidence.

I have decided or I am on the brink of doing so after picking up an 03 125 and having a 3 grand budget for a bike to build a hybrid.

[tag220]

I am 6'1" 235 I think my kdx has more power than I can use in the woods it only falls short on hillclimbs by this I mean 200 foot waste coal piles it will go up but I'm all in. The 450 and 250 play with hills this size this is why I keep looking at the 300