!@#$ -- broken kips gear

[crazybrit]

When I did this I wasn't quite as unhappy as I was when I looked up how much the replacement was, $51.00 plus postage from RonAyers

I was working from the manual and from Bryan Kimsey's write up (which I didn't find very useful). I took lots of pics so maybe I can come up with something better.



I'm not sure what the " Resonator" is but I figure since I'm doing a top end and the cyl is off, I had this covered

"Remove the main valve holder bolt (A), the main shaft nut (B), the valve rod plugs (C) and the main valve holder bolts (C)"

Seems like there is a misuse of "C" here. Is this meant to say:
"Remove the main valve holder bolts (A), the main shaft nut (B) and the valve rod plugs (C)?".

Of course whats D. Is D the allen head bolt that holds the lever arm onto the main shaft? Hard to tell as the Kawi pics (why are they like this in all Kawi manuals) as so dark.

I'm not sure if order of removal is where I messed up. I removed:
- small allen head bolt holding the lever arm onto the shaft
- main shaft nut (B)

only after this did I remove the 2 main valve holder hex holts

Anyhow, I'm removing the main shaft nut. Don't see any cautions or guidance in the manual about removal but it's needing a lot of ju-ju to get it off. Don't see an obvious way to grip the gears/shaft. Couldn't free the nut using a 1/4" wrench, easy with a 3/8". After this can't get the shaft out. Can't turn the shaft at all either, jammed up. Put the nut back on loosely and reverse the shaft with a 1/4" wrench and it frees itself. Now I can get the nut off and remove the shaft.

Alas:


Anyone got a used KIPS where they'd consider selling me this gear? $51 is ouch-a-rama.



Not sure if I borked things in my order of removal or if once the nut wasn't budging I should have taken a torch to it rather than applying more torque.



As an unrelated question, the manual shows the two seals on the main shaft as being removed as part of removal. I can use a seal puller to pull these but are they generally reusable. I'd like to remove them as then I don't have to worry about spraying solvent near them.

[Indawoods]

That should still work....

[2001kdx]

I have the same manual. Isn't it trash?

[crazybrit]

I have the same manual. Isn't it trash?

It could certainly be better.

So:

1) Is there a write up on KIPS remove/clean? Other than Bryan Kimseys. If not, I'll contribute one as I took lots of pics. Assuming it would be useful.

2) Did I do something wrong. Is there a defined order of removal or method of holding the shaft so that the gears don't break against the teeth on the valve rod (which is I'm assuming what happened).

3) The two oil seals on the main shaft: 92049-1238 "SEAL-OIL,SD088144". Can these be safely removed and reused with a seal puller or once removed are they a replace item. Bottom of page 4-12 of the manual shows them removed but I'm not sure how accurate this is. Easier to remove them so I can fully clean the cylinder if I can reuse them.

[Indawoods]

Check this out crazy...... http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4399

[scheckaet]

yep! been there, done that!
didn't replace the part and it's still workin' goooood
I didn't bother removing the subvalve at all, did not want to make it worse since I was installing Ron's goodies
So I just just soak in wd 40 and manualy made the valve turn back and forth, clean them and applied some oil (they kinda stick when they're dry and clean)
I'll try to take them apart next top end
wilf

[crazybrit]

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Check this out crazy...... http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4399

Thanks Inda. Thats helpful. I tried searching but didn't find this thread.

So, on the topic of the KIPS. I noticed some wear on the edge of the main valve. Problem? I doubt it but thought I'd ask.

[crazybrit]

yep! been there, done that!
didn't replace the part and it's still workin' goooood

ok. thanks. yeah I saw your thread once Inda posted it, I had similar sticker shock.

I didn't bother removing the subvalve at all, did not want to make it worse since I was installing Ron's goodies

Already took it all apart. All cleaned. Just need to reassemble and lube.

What is the relevance of Rob's goodies. I have them also, but is that related to making it worse?

Once you crack the nut on the main shaft, the rest is easy.

tony

[Indawoods]

Did you buy this bike new? It looks like someone used a grinder on it to get the carbon off before....


Shouldn't hurt anything though....

[crazybrit]

Did you buy this bike new? It looks like someone used a grinder on it to get the carbon off before....


Shouldn't hurt anything though....

This is the first top end (98 220R). OEM piston. I used a wire wheel (on my dremel tool) after I'd scraped off the carbon with a chisel tip. Wire wheel doesn't even dent the hardened steel -- I already tried as a test ;-)

I doubt it's been worked on before from talking to the previous owner, he never did anything.

[scheckaet]

The "Ron's goodies" part was just to stress out the fact I could not wait to try it, no time to waste on waiting for non essential parts

[crazybrit]

[deleted]

[canyncarvr]

Did I miss the answers to his questions? Easy to do having to scroll side-wise 'cuz your pics are too big!!'

Or...not everyone uses a 27" 16x9 monitor?

Anyway, in some sort of order:

What is the resonator?

The Helmholtz resonator is the volume of space under the KIPS cover on the LH side of the engine. A 2-stroke being an exhaust timed scavenging machine, the volume of the exhaust is critical to making the enging operate in its intended engine speed range. At low RPM, the resonator volume is part of the overall exhaust volume, at high RPM, it isn't. That's the KIPS at work. Well..part of it.


Misuse of 'C'?

Yeah. So? The manual is directly translated from Japanese by an Indian call center employee moonlighting on his REAL job. Any person in a technical field has talked to this guy. His name is Frank.


What is 'D'?

I can't tell from the pic...and I don't have a cylinder in my lap to look at...AND, I don't remember from memory!

To tell the truth, I have taken my KIPS apart a number of times and referenced the manual only in a cursory fashion. It all seemed fairly self-evident at the time..nothing that had to be filed away for future recall.

If you don't do it before tomorrow, I'll take a pic of my spare cylinder and post it here.

A large part of the problems with disassembly is the thing hasn't been taken care of for way too many years. It is not sensible to expect 'normal' disassembly procedures to apply to something that should be serviced annually..and hasn't been touched for ten years.

Gear tooth breakage isn't going to happen when the procedure if followed at reasonable intervals.

That said, forcing one gear against another is never a good idea when excessive force is going to be used. Your options are limited at the point of, 'This should have been done back in the '90s!'


Sure! I have a perfectly good working KIPS setup in my spare cylinder. I'll take that gear off and send it right up!

...Now THAT is NOT going to happen!!


Use your Christmas bonus money (this years!) and buy the parts you need to do the job right!

imo and all that.......

[crazybrit]

This should have been done back in the '90s!

Actually there was very little buildup at all. I don't think it was worth me cleaning it period. There was a little carbon buildup on the main valve that I had to scrape but the subvalves cleaned up with just a spray of carb cleaner and a small wire brush.

The kips chamber cleaned with just a spray of carb cleaner.

The bike may be a 1998 but I don't think it's been ridden much.

[Green Hornet]

Misuse of 'C'?

Yeah. So? The manual is directly translated from Japanese by an Indian call center employee moonlighting on his REAL job. Any person in a technical field has talked to this guy. His name is Frank.

LOL
You know FRANK TOOOOOOO