Odd clacking noise

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crazybrit
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Odd clacking noise

Post by crazybrit »

I've not ridden the KDX since last October due to a wrist injury. In that time I amused myself by buying parts, wrenching on 3 other bikes and riding long trips to Mexico and back on my KTM 950.

Got an carb off eBay in Jan, had RB Designs (5 miles from my house) modify it in Feb. Bought a new FMF rev/desert pipe and some 607 reeds 2 months ago.

Went to Europe for a month, more riding, finally got some time to put it all together.

Bike is making an odd noise. It's always been a little 'clacky' but I don't think it's been this bad before, but like I said, first time it's been started since Oct so my memory isn't running on all cylinders.

Put the 607 reeds in using the supplied thin metal reed stop, threw out the old gas, new premium at 50:1 (thats what Jeff Fredette reocmmended to me) using AmsOil.

It sounds like this (literally like this, aka this is a good recording):
http://www.tonyjones.com/bikes/kdx/kdx.wav

Ignore what windows media player saud, clip is 47 seconds long. Winamp gets it right. 12 seconds in, kick start it. 20 seconds in, move mic a little closer. 42 seconds kill motor.

In the background is the rumble of the motor and in the foreground the clacking noise coming from the, well, err, piston/cylinder area.

So basically new reeds, new pipe and new carb. Always been a bit noisy but seems a lot worse now.

Anyone got any ideas?

edit: bike is a 1998, I've owned it since May of last year. Believe it's still on the stock 220 piston. No clue if the KIPS is working, I've never checked it, I wondered if it was the infamous KIPS rattle or not.
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Post by luke347 »

I have that same exact sound on my 94' but i thought the same thing that it was the cylinder but when i investigated further it was my seat rattling against the tank try taking of your seat and starting the bike to see if its that because its very hard to tell where sounds are coming from without one of those valve listener things that mechanics use
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Post by crazybrit »

LOL, no it's not the seat. Yes, even though I knew it wasn't I just went and checked. It is either the pipe or the motor that is making the noise. I just left it to warm up, didn't stop. Clutch in makes no diff.

I did notice I have a crap seal between the pipe/expansion chamber and the exhaust. Pipe seems seated correctly but it's leaking spooge badly. Not sure if this is related to the noise.

CC thinks it's normal, I'm not so sure, I don't recall it being so prominent before.
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Post by canyncarvr »

The constant 'clacking' on the .wav sounds like clutch rattle to me (yes, I read 'no diff' part). The intermittent 'clacking' sounds like 2T inefficiencies/pipe clatter at idle.

First it sounded pretty awful...but listening to the kicker hit the frame at the start..THAT is a sharp 'clack' too..and you know that is a much deeper sound when it happens.

My concern is far more with a '98 220, just modified to make more power, three owners...OEM piston................. :shock: Original piston for nine years? That is just plain not acceptable.

Also, note an old pipe will likely be more quiet than a new pipe due to carbon build up.

Headpipe joints often leak. That is why God made HiTemp RTV!

AND...a leaking exhaust will increase the sharpness of the 'clack' of that inefficient 2T idle noise, too.

Re: 'valve listener things that mechanics use'

A piece of tubing stuck in your ear accomplishes the same thing.

Using tubing that has NOT been used to bleed your hydraulics is probably a good idea...........

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Post by crazybrit »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:The constant 'clacking' on the .wav sounds like clutch rattle to me (yes, I read 'no diff' part). The intermittent 'clacking' sounds like 2T inefficiencies/pipe clatter at idle.
I only hear one set of clacking. But then I've always know you were way smarter than I CC :grin: Seriously, I'm not sure there are two kinds present. There is a constant rumble in the background, is this what you are referring to?

I hear two noises (after the 12 sec point). Constant background rumble and a fairly constant (ok, periods where it skips a 1/8th sec or so) foreground clacking.
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Post by crazybrit »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:
My concern is far more with a '98 220, just modified to make more power, three owners...OEM piston................. :shock: Original piston for nine years? That is just plain not acceptable.
Alright alright I hear you already. Sheesh, your wife must just love you :roll: Yeah, maybe the stock piston + now-you-have-more-power = boom does make sense. I hate agreeing with you CC, it simply pains me :mrgreen:

Also you're screwing with me as if I'm taking the head off I'll have to drive over to Ron and have him do his squish band magic.

- Is there an easy way to ID if it's still the OEM/Kwak piston once I take the head off?

- If it is, what do I need to order from Rocky Mountain?

Wiseco Piston Kit Pro-Lite Standard (69 mm)
Fits: 1998, KAWASAKI, KDX220
Part# 1038400058

Wiseco Piston Wristpin Bearing
Fits: 1998, KAWASAKI, KDX220
Part# 1038430008

Cometic Top End Gasket Set
Fits: 1998, KAWASAKI, KDX220
Part# 1009120038

Shoulda done this back when I had that nice 10% off coupon. Grrr.
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Post by m0rie »

It sounds fine to me. If you just go the new rev pipe and had not ran the bike since you put it on I think thats where your new noise is coming from. Especially if you went from the stock double wall pipe to the FMF single wall. Double check your pipe mounts however and silcone the cylinder/pipe joint. Also check that the pipe is properly clearanced on the frame and kips covers.

I'll concur with CC on the stock piston for the 220. R&R it while you can. A fresh piston and rings will make it sing. So will Ron's magic with the low-pow stock 220 head.
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Post by crazybrit »

>|<>QBB<
m0rie wrote:It sounds fine to me. If you just go the new rev pipe and had not ran the bike since you put it on I think thats where your new noise is coming from. Especially if you went from the stock double wall pipe to the FMF single wall. Double check your pipe mounts however and silcone the cylinder/pipe joint. Also check that the pipe is properly clearanced on the frame and kips covers.

I'll concur with CC on the stock piston for the 220. R&R it while you can. A fresh piston and rings will make it sing. So will Ron's magic with the low-pow stock 220 head.
Already checked the clearance with frame/kips. It's good. I think it is the pipe thats being noisy, maybe I'm just used to the carboned up stock double wall. Appreciate you listening and saying it sounds ok.

I've never sealed the cylinder pipe connection, I can barely get it out right now as the first o-ring on the FMF is tight tight tight. I left the Fredette torque ring in and it definitely prevents the pipe from going in all the way as the second o-ring is partially exposed. I'll go back to the original ring and use some hi-temp silicon.

When I said it was leaking I was talking about the joint between the FMF and the stock exhaust. The rubber gizmo long ago tore. I'll throw some silicon at that also though it didn't seal well last time I tried it.

Thanks!
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Post by canyncarvr »

>|<>QBB<
crazybrit wrote:>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:
My concern is far more with a '98 220, just modified to make more power, three owners...OEM piston................. :shock: Original piston for nine years? That is just plain not acceptable.
Alright alright I hear you already. Sheesh, your wife must just love you :roll:

Don't have one...so I doubt it.
Yeah, maybe the stock piston + now-you-have-more-power = boom does make sense. I hate agreeing with you CC, it simply pains me :mrgreen:
Don't feel pregnant (as the saying goes). I'm saying don't feel all alone!
Also you're screwing with me as if I'm taking the head off I'll have to drive over to Ron and have him do his squish band magic.
Well...yeah.
- Is there an easy way to ID if it's still the OEM/Kwak piston once I take the head off?
Not if the sizing of the Pro-X is correct. If the piston in it is a 'B' piston and the cylinder is a 'C'..you know it's been changed.

In the realm of possibilities, that the thing has not blowed up YET is a better indication that it's OK than not. Why hasn't it happened yet?

It would give me the creeps riding on that much faith....
- If it is, what do I need to order from Rocky Mountain?

Wiseco Piston Kit Pro-Lite Standard (69 mm)
Fits: 1998, KAWASAKI, KDX220
Part# 1038400058

Wiseco Piston Wristpin Bearing
Fits: 1998, KAWASAKI, KDX220
Part# 1038430008

Cometic Top End Gasket Set
Fits: 1998, KAWASAKI, KDX220
Part# 1009120038

Shoulda done this back when I had that nice 10% off coupon. Grrr.
Yep.

Consider the torque process on the cylinder. A Motion Pro wrench that fits (socket drive in the middle of it) is a good thing if you don't have a 'calibrated' elbow.

Well...to be not too delicate about it....you know the bike is a '98 and has not been serviced better'n anyone else........... :cry:

Heck...I don't know it's going to blow up or anything of the sort. It's just that the odds gods are NOT with you. Nine years on a 200 would get you pretty much the same response. IT'S TIME!!
Last edited by canyncarvr on 01:50 pm Jun 25 2007, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by crazybrit »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:
- If it is, what do I need to order from Rocky Mountain?

Wiseco Piston Kit Pro-Lite Standard (69 mm)
Fits: 1998, KAWASAKI, KDX220
Part# 1038400058

Wiseco Piston Wristpin Bearing
Fits: 1998, KAWASAKI, KDX220
Part# 1038430008

Cometic Top End Gasket Set
Fits: 1998, KAWASAKI, KDX220
Part# 1009120038

Shoulda done this back when I had that nice 10% off coupon. Grrr.
Well...to be not too delicate about it....you know the bike is a '98 and has not been serviced better'n anyone else........... :cry:

Heck...I don't know it's going to blow up or anything of the sort. It's just that the odds gods are NOT with you. Nine years on a 200 would get you pretty much the same response. IT'S TIME!!
Dude, I gotsta ya. I hears ya. I'm on borrowed time, I can now see the tracers shooting past me missing my nose by millimeters. I'm so scared I'm not sure I can even open the garage door in case the piston comes flying out at me.

So, is the above what I need? Anything else? Is there a cheaper place than RM-ATV to order from? It's all in stock and usually there prices are pretty A1.

Tony
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Post by canyncarvr »

I edited it a few times...especially the part about telling if it's OEM or not.

And the wrench add...

If RM is higher than anyone else, it's not enough to worry about.

..not that I've found anyway...

I'm so scared...
Darn tootin'!!!
maybe I'm just used to the carboned up stock double wall...
I'm behind the proverbial 8-ball. I thought you had an aftermarket pipe that was dented or somesuch and you were looking for a -30 over a -35?
Sheesh...where are my keys anyway.

IF you went from OEM double wall to single wall as m0rie said...there is certainly a big difference in noise!!!

Yur piston is still going to blow up and take your ears off next time you open the garage door..................

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Post by scheckaet »

Could it be the KIPS? You mentioned you had spooge coming out the pipe, if so I would suspect the kips is all goobered up too...
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Post by crazybrit »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote: I'm behind the proverbial 8-ball. I thought you had an aftermarket pipe that was dented or somesuch and you were looking for a -30 over a -35?
Sheesh...where are my keys anyway.
Behind the 8-ball, excellent, just where I like you. you're not losing it. I did buy a -35, then right after it, got the RB mod done and Ron said to ditch the -35 and get the -30. Spent forever trying to find somone who would trade, finally gave up and got a new -30. Still have the -35 if anyone wants it, would like to get $120 for it, it's in pretty good shape. There is a pic in the FS section and I can mail more.

So should I pull the existing piston and make sure what it is before ordering the new one from Rocky Mountain, or is the Pro-Lite Standard (69 mm) going to be what I want regardless. Got a bit confuzzled with your "sizing of the Pro-X is correct" and B/C comments.

This is my first ever 2smoke and I've never done a top end before. I'm fairly mechanically inclined 4stroke wise. Found this http://www.dirtrider.net/justkdx/bakimseytopend.html and I have the shop manual but more things to read is always good, any other docs worth reading.

KIPS: yes, I'll check that too. I've seen the threads here on how to check if it's functioning and there is a doc on JustKDX also (top end tips).[/url]
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Post by crazybrit »

>|<>QBB<
scheckaet wrote:Could it be the KIPS? You mentioned you had spooge coming out the pipe, if so I would suspect the kips is all goobered up too...
Yeah it's leaking big time out of the joint between the FMF and the stock exhaust. Major drippage of spooge. I'll check the KIPS.

Man, this bike, if I added #hours wrenching between replacing all the swingarm linkage bearings, replacing the steering bearings and now all this, I've spent probably 4x the seat time in wrenching. I bought one of the cleaner ones I saw from an owner who was one of the more clueful ones and he'd still never done any PM on it. I guess short of buying one from someone on this forum there ain't much you can do. I've seen some just rancid looking ones at the trailheads.
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Post by scheckaet »

Man, this bike, if I added #hours wrenching between replacing all the swingarm linkage bearings, replacing the steering bearings and now all this, I've spent probably 4x the seat time in wrenching. I bought one of the cleaner ones I saw from an owner who was one of the more clueful ones and he'd still never done any PM on it. I guess short of buying one from someone on this forum there ain't much you can do. I've seen some just rancid looking ones at the trailheads.
So??? Don't you love it???
Now you know that everything is in tip top shape and don't have to wonder: is the bearing good, when was the last top end done....
Riding is 1/2 the fun ! :mrgreen:
I like workin on my bike on rainy days, it calms me down (when all goes acording to plans of course). When I can't ride because the bike is down then yeah dat pisses me off :evil:

Good luck!
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Post by marco220 »

FWIW: Couldn't tell if there was anything weird.... if you want to get closer to the source of you noise concern give this a try (never tried it one a 2-smoke but works great on car engines). Take a large screwdriver with a hard handle, place the steel tip where you think the noise is originating and put your ear up to the end of the handle. I know you guys were all waiting for the punch line but don't knock it til you've tried it. It's amazing how much the sound is amplified. It may help with narrowing down your search.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Oh...you put your ear on the HANDLE end!!!! :shock:

Sheesh...no wonder I never had much luck doing that.............. :?

Mr. Brit:

I was sure of that. I mean...I offered you my (slightly) used -30 for FREE, but you weren't interested!

OK...so the noise difference 'tween a double walled stocker and single walled FmF is NOT the issue.

Re: Pro-X sizing.

:hmm:

Where have you been?

Pro-X's are grouped to reflect .01mm size differences..thus the 'A' 'B' 'C' etc of pistons AND cylinders. Both are marked with a stamped letter. On the piston it's toward the front of the piston crown, on the cylinder it's under the head on the left-front corner.

Wiseco's are NOT grouped to reflect any such differences. What you get is what you got.

The answer to your question, '..Pro-Lite Standard (69 mm) going to be what I want regardless,' is:

'Yes.'

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Post by crazybrit »

canyncarvr wrote:
I was sure of that. I mean...I offered you my (slightly) used -30 for FREE, but you weren't interested!
WHAT, when did you offer me anything, let alone anything for free? Jeez, I must have been totally spacing as I'd have been all over that like a fly on you know what. You're just saying this to torque me up.
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Post by crazybrit »

scheckaet wrote:
So??? Don't you love it???
I do but I've spent a ton of time wrenching on my KTM 625SXC and my 950 Adventure too. My SuperHawk is burning oil at 1/4qt per 1000 miles so now I need to pull that apart too. Just too many bikes I guess.

Was hoping to get out on the KDX but now I can't even open the garage door till I get this Wiseco and put it in. My bad, should have got all this done in the winter, oh right, I was riding the KTM in Mexico this winter, so there has been some riding, phew ;-)

Mostly I've just added up what this bike has cost me and I'm running close to $3k now and I still don't have a KX front end. How much are those 200 EXCs ........
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Post by canyncarvr »

>|<>QBB<
crazybrit wrote:
canyncarvr wrote:
I was sure of that. I mean...I offered you my (slightly) used -30 for FREE, but you weren't interested!
WHAT, when did you offer me anything, let alone anything for free? Jeez, I must have been totally spacing as I'd have been all over that like a fly on you know what. You're just saying this to torque me up.
I'm not sure what torquing up someone consists of. Torque being force of twist...I hope we aren't talking about t-twisters.........in which case the answer is 'No'.

Anyway..yes I did. No...I didn't keep track of it for proof. My bad I'm sure.

Just 'cuz you are repeatedly and often plain 'ol mean to me is no reason I should return the favor!!


signed,
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cc

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