Basic Sag settings

Got questions? We got answers....

Basic Sag settings

Postby danfree » 12:43 pm May 08 2007

I just installed lowering links and having some trouble getting it set up. (I know, I know. They're a bad crutch, but I feel I need them for now). My initial settings were 600/ 570 / 492. That gives me 108mm for race sag and 30mm for free sag, right? The kouba instructions recommend a much lower race sag setting (~3.0"). I figured I would kind of split the difference. So I cranked down on the shock's preload adjustment (~1 turn). The new measurements were 592/ 575/ 500. That gives me 92mm race sag and 17mm free sag. Those numbers look much better, but the seat feels even higher than before! Granted, when I am actually sitting on the bike I can touch the ground with both feet. However, I may need to enroll in a TaeKwonDo class to be able kick my leg over the Green Steed. What's up with that? Cranking down on the spring preload seems to lift up the rear end. Do you think I need a heavier spring? I should have taken the baseline settings with the original links in there, but I didn't. I think I will, now. Sorry for getting offtrack.
If I get the next heavier spring rate, will I be able to get more free sag with less preload? Well, relative to the stock spring. I guess if I back off the adjusting nut, the rear end will come down far enough, but the spring will probably be flopping around.
2008 Yam FZ6
2005 KDX 200
danfree
Member
 
Posts: 46
Joined: 04:49 am Jul 02 2006
Location: North Florida
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby GhostRider » 02:18 pm May 08 2007

Your spring doesn't sound to bad, you should probably set your sag to around 95mm to 100mm. Free sag is not something you should be aiming to get if your asking for performance, you should have around 25mm free sag and seeing that you have 17mm thats not too far off. i'd set your sag to 95 to 100mm race sag and be done with it.

And to answer the question A heavier spring rate will give you more free sag with less preload. Unless you've got money to burn or if your really concerned about the height of the beast i'd keep the spring you have and set the sag properly. Changing your spring to a stiffer one to get more free sag and maintain the race sag, will screw with your preformance.
**((Bike Profile))**

**((Bike Pics))**

I am a green machine (when im hungry) :lol:
User avatar
GhostRider
Member
 
Posts: 86
Joined: 11:19 pm Mar 10 2007
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby danfree » 02:39 pm May 08 2007

That sounds good. I'm sure the lowering link will be temporary (until I get confident on the bike). I weigh in at around 190 lbs, so the stock spring should be good for me. I was afraid that using this link was subjecting the suspension to extra leverage and I though I may have to compensate for it. Even though the new links are only about 10mm longer. By the time I ride aggressively enough to tax the suspension, I should be ready to put the stock dogbones back on. Thanks for your input!
2008 Yam FZ6
2005 KDX 200
danfree
Member
 
Posts: 46
Joined: 04:49 am Jul 02 2006
Location: North Florida
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby canyncarvr » 06:50 pm May 09 2007

The reason a lowering link would call for a different sag setting is because the leverage angles of the whole mess change when the pullrod length changes.

I don't understand your figures. Whether you have the spring squeezed to coil bind or don't even have the spring ON the shock, how does your extended measurement change?

At least, that's what I understand the 600 and 592 numbers to be...a measurement from a given point to fully extended. Why does changing your preload make the fully extended figure different?

Maybe this just isn't my day (gee...only THIS day?)...but I don't understand this, either:

I guess if I back off the adjusting nut, the rear end will come down far enough...


As you UNscrew the adjusting nut you LENGTHEN the installed spring height. The rear end goes UP, not down.

But then, you also said you cranked 'down' on the spring and got LESS race sag as a result.

That's backwards, too...

But, like I said...maybe this just ain't my day. :wink:

The OEM 5.0kg/mm shock spring for 190# is a bit light.

BTW...the measurement is taken on a vertical..which should be 90ยบ to what it's sitting on...which should be level.
Last edited by canyncarvr on 12:57 pm May 10 2007, edited 1 time in total.

Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis

bike profile: !clicky!
User avatar
canyncarvr
Gold Member
Gold Member
 
Posts: 6941
Images: 26
Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Postby 2001kdx » 11:38 am May 10 2007

I have 4.5 inches of sag even with the ring turned all the way down. Who cares though?
User avatar
2001kdx
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: 08:36 am Sep 23 2006
Location: Town of Montgomery, NY
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby canyncarvr » 12:57 pm May 10 2007

I do...if there is any understanding to be had.

It's things said like that that add to the confusion.

If 'all the way down' means completely squeezed (that's how I would understand 'all the way down' in regard to the adjusting rings on the shock) and you do have 4.5 inches of sag (race presumed, not free/static), your shock is stuck somwhere along the line.

Who cares? Not me..as long as it's your bike! :wink:

Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis

bike profile: !clicky!
User avatar
canyncarvr
Gold Member
Gold Member
 
Posts: 6941
Images: 26
Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Postby 2001kdx » 01:29 pm May 10 2007

Yea. If you like "sqeezed", then i'll use that. My shock isn't stuck, the spring is too light. That's all. If 190# is a bit light on the stocker, then I'm smushing it. But what's the big deal if it sags a little more? I can't tell the difference between completely unsqeezed, and completely squeezed shock sag when I'm out on the trail. I'm too busy focusing on riding!
User avatar
2001kdx
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: 08:36 am Sep 23 2006
Location: Town of Montgomery, NY
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby kawagumby » 01:48 pm May 10 2007

Assuming all of the damping settings front and back are dialed for the kind of conditions you generally ride in, fine tuning rear spring preload can be as simple as going off of small jumps and seeing how the bike reacts. If the rear tends to kick up (even tho damping is correct), back off the preload slightly, likewise, if the front end tends to push or wash some, tighten it slightly. I generally set the intial sag at four inches and fine tune by the above.
1994 KDX200, Beta Xtrainer, Beta 390 RR-S
User avatar
kawagumby
Gold Member
Gold Member
 
Posts: 905
Images: 4
Joined: 10:09 am Nov 30 2006
Location: California
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Postby danfree » 07:22 pm May 10 2007

Well I think you're right cc. I think maybe the spring or retainers were sticking or binding. I took the Kouba(s) off to get some baseline numbers and when I put them back on, I couldn't duplicate the trend (adding preload to change the unloaded length). Plus, my measurements are somewhat subjective because I take the first two (a,b)and then call my wife over to take the last one (c). So for clarity: a= bike on the stand, rear tire off the ground. b= bike on the ground on its own weight. c= my fat ass on the bike. Measurements are taken from the rear axle to a point on the rear fender (marked). So my logic is as follows: a-c = race sag. a-b = free sag.
Without the links: I got a=637, b=612, c=533. Race sag=104 Free= 25. Not bad, except I can barely get on the bike!
With the links: 598/ 575/ 492. Race sag= 106 Free= 23.
Increase preload 1 turn and I get 598/ 579/ 495. Race sag= 103 Free= 19. Probably good enough for me. I can get on the bike (if I tilt over a bit). Once I'm on I can touch the ground with both feet, albeit my toes. Now then my question is this: I am already at the limit of preload adjustment according to the KawaMom. 125 mm max from upper mounting bolt to bottom of adjusting nut. The Kouba instructions suggest reducing the Race sag to about 80 mm to minimize the amount needed to raise the forks. I wasn't planning on going that low, but I figured about 90 mm would be a good compromise. However, I don't think I should try to add anymore preload to the shock spring at this point. I was just wondering if going to next next heavier spring would be beneficial. I realize 100mm is the normal setting and performance will be lost if going much less. But honestly, I am old and slow. I'm looking for plush and easy for now.
2008 Yam FZ6
2005 KDX 200
danfree
Member
 
Posts: 46
Joined: 04:49 am Jul 02 2006
Location: North Florida
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby canyncarvr » 03:23 pm May 15 2007

Thanks. I like the new numbers better!

Kind'a late..but checking the level of your bike (putting a level on it..making marks on the seat to show where the level has to be to SHOW level would have been a good thing.

Then you know what's 'level'. Or at least what WAS level before you started changing things. A bike going 'uphill' all the time is going to be a bother on steep stuff..it's going to want to loop. It's also going to be 'slower' handling-wise.

The 100mm part is just a starting point. I've been on both sides of it myself to determine that 100mm works for me. With the leverage change of the longer links, that number doesn't mean as much.

Worry less..ride more. How 'bout that? As long you don't have it adjusted to NO free sag, or so little it's not good enough, and you don't bottom things out on a regular basis, you're good enough! A 'free' of 19mm is on the low end of things...but it'll do!

Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis

bike profile: !clicky!
User avatar
canyncarvr
Gold Member
Gold Member
 
Posts: 6941
Images: 26
Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times


Return to KDX General Q&A

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 11 guests