KIPS behaviour question

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GhostRider
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KIPS behaviour question

Post by GhostRider »

My bike has a new top end and it runs great on whoops at low speeds and midrange, except for top end the top end works well but if I ring it out and get to the high revs the kips makes the fast tapping sound and I get a boost in power then after a couple of seconds the sound goes away and I get a drop in power, and I have to shift up to get it back it again. When I put the top end on all valves were opening at the same time but they werent open when the shaft was all the way out, they were fully open when the shaft was 3 quarters of the way out the if it was pulled anymore they would start to close again. I got a mechanic to time them and Im thinking hes done it wrong. The powervalves are new so they dont need cleaning. I think they are going into open position then as the RPM increases they go past that into closed position meaning there not timed right, can someone define the problem? am I right? thanks
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Colorado Mike
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Post by Colorado Mike »

Interesting theory, but I kind of doubt it. Did this bike ever run right? if so, what happened just before this? You say the KIPS valves are new, Why is that? A little history might be helpful in diagnosing the problem. With the bike only able to run high RPM for a few seconds, I would be looking at fuel delivery. If you have a fuel filter, bypass it, ensure your float level is set correctly, floats don't stick, no crud in the carb, etc. Also put in a new plug and make sure the cap is seated all the way. Weird things can happen in the electrics too.

Back to the KIPS, you can read previous posts on how to check that pretty well without a total tear-down.

EDIT: I must be losing it, The first time I read your post I didn't get half this stuff. Okay sounds like you have joined the ranks of CC and me , which is to say you get screwed everytime you pay some weasel in a bike shop to do something for you. The KIPS seems to be screwed, much like you were, but different in the sense that it's fixable. Maybe the shop will donate a gasket set to offset your time in doing it right. If I were you , I would also make sure they didn't screw up the actuator assembly on the right side as a no extra-cost service to you.
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GhostRider
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Post by GhostRider »

You see every thing we have taken to this bike shop has been stuffed up but he timed the powervalves for free, He said he could not find the timing marks so he did it by feel, The powervalves have been replaced with the new top end due to them being snapped. I am jetted correctly with new spark plug and float is set correctly. ??? fuel filter. Its just that I looked at a guide on the internet which showed you hoe to time the kips and the weigh he timed it was to have them all open when the shaft is 3/4 of the way out when im pretty sure they should be open fully when the shaft is all the way out. The actuator arm is fine im basically lost. And from what ive read I cant check my kips without tear down, it is an E series.
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Colorado Mike
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Post by Colorado Mike »

well there are plenty of folks on here with E bikes, I'm sure one will be by directly with the info you need.

The fuel filter comment was in case you added one yourself. I've found plenty that were clogged enough to cause problems at high RPM , but worked well enough at lower speeds. In the old days some of the fuel tank valves were restrictive enough to cause problems like that.
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GhostRider
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Post by GhostRider »

Yeah I didnt add a fuel filter and im pretty sure I aint got one, Please E series gurus whats your view on my problem.
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kdxquebec
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Post by kdxquebec »

Maybe your power valves (2) and main valve (1) are not timed correctly.

It is more than a feeling thing(Boston :mrgreen: ). There is one way to adjust them.

When you rev the bike at neutral, the governor shaft is supposed to move near 6000rm...Does it move? remove the plastic cover and look.

Can you remove the pipe, disconnect the governor shaft (left hand threads and support the shaft with visegrips BE CAREFUL!!!) and take pictures in the pipe hole? Maybe we can see if they are correct in the pictures.

Closed and open position.

Or, you will have to remove the jug head and check if they are correct.

You need a service manual...but read this it will help. http://www.geocities.com/a57ngel/moto/kips.html
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GhostRider
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Post by GhostRider »

The valves are time correctly to be closed and then open when the shaft is 3 quarters of the way out, but as you know the more you pull the shaft out the more the valves turn so if they are open at the point when the shaft is 3/4 of the way out, when they are meant to be open at the point when the shaft is fully out doesnt that mean that as rpm increases the shaft gets pulled out past the 3/4 way to fully out and because the valves are open at 3/4 of the way out wont they keep turning and begin to close again. I know they are working because of the power increase but Id like someone to tell me if it is likely to be that they are closing again or whether im wrong, I just cant see what else the problem would be.
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