Just got the new springs - checking questions

Mark W · Post by **Mark W** » 02:22 pm Mar 05 2005

Thanks for the springs Vince, they just came in today. I took everything apart yesterday and there was nothing to the disassembly. Have a couple final questions before putting it all back together.

1. When I took the old spring out, I did not get anything attached to the bottom of the spring. Do I need to go digging or am I OK?

2. I didn't know if 5 weight of 7 weight would be best. I bought one liter of 5 and 1 liter of 7 and will mix them for a 6 weight - what the heck.

3. 1" schedule 40 pvc for the spacers, not 3/4"?

4. To set spacer /pre-load length I need to do the following:
Put new spring on collapsed fork
Screw cap completely onto rod
Extend the rod (pull the rod out to get a good measurement)
Measure the distance from the top of the spring to the bottom of the cap. Subtract about 3 mm for the width of both washers. This is my new spacer length. Anything longer than that is for pre-load. Most suggest around 2-6 mm as a good starting point.

5. With the fork collapsed, add amount of oil you desire. (Any other suggestions for oil level? 110 mm seems to be a common suggestion. I'm 200 nekid and am an easy going rider. Ride trails and some small MX.)

Put all back together.

Thanks again for all the help -

Mark W

Post by **Indawoods** » 09:32 pm Mar 05 2005

Mark,
I believe there should be clips on the bottom of those springs... look with a flashlight and retreive them...make sure you attach them on your new springs also!

1" is correct on the PVC....

Preload... get your oil height right first, pull the tubes up as if you were going to attach the cap... (a tube with a nut welded onto it will help hold the rod but for this you don't need to worry about the rod) Anyway... with the springs in place and holding the tube up, measure from the top of the spring to the top of the tube... this will give you aproximately 6-8mm of preload on the springs (Exact measurement I am unsure of but these guys who have done it should be able to tell you) The difference between the top of the tube and how far the cap pushes down the spring is what it will be preloaded with so just keep this in mind. When you do get to the point of putting the caps back on... turn the tubes onto the cap and not the caps themselves. Or else you may get the annoying clicking that people get doing it the other way.....

As far as oil level... refer to your manual... remember, it is easy to add oil... but dificult to subtract it without taking the forks apart again. I alway go on the low side and add if needed.

I tried and tried to wait for someone else to answer these questions but I know you want to get them back together... so this is my best effort to get you going...

Post by **KDXGarage** » 02:00 am Mar 15 2005

How in the heck did I miss this one? This is a busy place.

All that stuff sounds like everything I have read, too. I would just add that if you want to add a little oil, get a syringe without the needle and inject the same amount through the air bleeder screw holes.

Let us know how they ride!

Thanks.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 05:59 pm Mar 15 2005

I missed it altogether...sorry.

Yep. Check for those spring seats. You don't say what you got...and I didn't go look...but they are part of an 'H' assembly. They will NOT 'find' themselves fit properly to the spring if you don't PUT them there in the first place.

Mixing different weights of oil doesn't give you a different viscosity..a quart of 5w and a quart of 10w doesn't give you 2 quarts of 7.5 weight.

Preload is going to depend on rider weight and spring selection. Last time I changed mine (from 6mm to 3mm) I very much liked the result.

110mm oil? OK. I like 115 better....and 120 better than that. Much less 'feel' on little stuff with a bigger air shock.

Something to consider that I think is a big deal...fork bleeders. Over the course of a days ride, bleeding excess pressure several times will hugely improve your forks response. Motion pro has a set..no rethreading required. Something like $20.

Nice to be able to take the pressure off your forks when you strap your bike on your trailer/back of your truck, too.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 06:08 pm Mar 15 2005

"Mixing different weights of oil doesn't give you a different viscosity..a quart of 5w and a quart of 10w doesn't give you 2 quarts of 7.5 weight. "

Are you sure about that? I am thinking it does, is why I ask.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 08:00 pm Mar 15 2005

Of course I'm not sure. I remember reading it someplace...

web guy wrote: 1. As far as I know, mixing oils of different viscosities results in a lubricant that is only good for the lower viscosity of the two (or more) oils involved.

I've spent the last fifteen minutes looking for some info of factual nature. I haven't found it.

Post by **Indawoods** » 08:09 pm Mar 15 2005

The springs Mark bought from me were not the correct springs. They were something like 580mm so I refunded his money. I guess I will put them on eBay and get what I get. I feel bad because I thought they would work. I shoulda measured them before putting them up for sale on the site. I sure hope I haven't discouraged him from trying to get the suspension up to snuff.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 11:24 am Mar 16 2005

...still don't know what bike he has...but..

The XR springs I used are around 530mm in length. That's real close to as long as a spring can be and still fit with the various clips, washers and other stuff that goes on the rod.

With my XR springs (they aren't all 530mm long) my preload spacer is only about 3mm thick.

Where'd you get 580mm springs?

dave04kdx · Post by **dave04kdx** » 02:01 pm Mar 16 2005

I remember reading the same article about mixing the oils and the viscosity change. I'm sure that I saw the thread on DRN. IMO just cause someone says its fact doesn't make it so.

I'm curious now,

I'll check into it and post what I find.

dave04kdx · Post by **dave04kdx** » 02:31 pm Mar 16 2005

This site gives a good explanation on mixing fork oil weights and a cool chart.

http://www.sweetspotbikes.com/mixoil.html

Post by **KDXGarage** » 02:44 pm Mar 16 2005

Thanks for the chart, Dave! Here's another chart on a good website.

http://kdx.woodsrider.net/viewtopic.php?t=32

It is interesting to see how the oils compare to the stock Kayaba oil.

I have read to compare fork oils at the 40 degree listing and the shock oils at the 100 degree listing.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 03:10 pm Mar 16 2005

Great! So, the question being, 'Do differing oil weights if mixed result in a linear weight average?' the answer is...'It depends.'

Post by **KDXGarage** » 03:13 pm Mar 16 2005

The page Dave mentioned says:

"However, in mixing fork oil, the viscosity difference is so small that the relationship is linear. You can see on the left side of the rotated graph (where the 2-10wt fork oils are), the envelope line is pretty much straight. Its not until you get up to the heavy oils on the right side of the graph does the slope start increasing pretty fast. So, as far as we’re concerned, light weight oils mix linearly. A mix of 50/50 10wt and 5wt WILL give you a 7.5wt oil +/- .05 I’d guess."

I say "close enough".

I suppose that most people will use 0w to 15w in shocks and forks, so the 20w and above wouldn't really have to be worried with.

I wouldn't mind running SAE 30 in some forks just to see what it was like, though.

Mark W · Post by **Mark W** » 09:07 pm Mar 17 2005

Just got my springs from Service Honda. They too are not 530 mm long but more like 533-535 mm long or so. This should work out fine.

When I get a chance to finish this job, I'm sure I'll have a pre-load question or two.

My bike is a 2002 KDX220 by the way. Bone stock last year with the exception of some jetting and the airbox mod. Maybe a RB carb and a new pipe later this year.

Vince has been great about returning the springs and helping out a poor soul such as myself. Like I said in my bio, I like it here.

Mark W

Post by **KDXGarage** » 09:34 pm Mar 17 2005

Cool. Just post another message if you need any help on it. We'll be sure to confuse you even more.

Veedub · Post by **Veedub** » 10:59 pm May 05 2005

Hi Guys,

New to the group, My question is why the XR400 springs? FRP sells springs that fit in three different spring rates. Any benefit to the XR units?

Thanks

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 11:19 pm May 05 2005

I'm pretty sure length (XR are longer) and XR springs are hot wound vs cold wound. I could be wrong though, but don't fret one of the resident gurus will be around soon....

Post by **fuzzy** » 11:50 pm May 05 2005

Quick IMO on pipe/RB carb....Get that susp right, and add a steering stabilizer before messing w/ power mods. Even valving. I make that point due to the fact that it's nearly impossible to use all the stock power w/ stock susp. After experience w/ Inda's Scott's Stabilizer that's just a hands down must--regardless of brand, and Iv'e got a full pro-action re-spring/re-valve.

Re-jet, re-spring, re-valve, and add stabilzer. If you can't keep your bike's motor rockin out all the time, then you need to get it to the ground thinking about extra power. However...The RB mod does do wonders to off-idle performace, but I don't rank that mod as high on the 'necessities' list...

IMO, and all that. I preach this all the time.

The truth of the matter is that most woods guys don't use 25% of the power their bike has on average. It's all about getting the power to the ground as smoothly as possible, as often as possible. This creates speed regardless of the motorsport....Susp/adjustment, tires/air adjustment, and the rider's/driver's technique contibute to these the most....

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 11:53 pm May 05 2005

I think price is a consideration. XR springs are cheap and easy to find on eBay. If you don't like them, you aren't out much moola.

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 01:13 am May 06 2005

Only $150AU

over 'ere.....

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Just got the new springs - checking questions

Just got the new springs - checking questions

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