KDX jet needle hit increase

motofox2006 · Post by **motofox2006** » 04:55 am Mar 26 2007

Ive read many threads and found that there are many needles I can go with to get more power from my fairly stock kdx.

Ive read many people want to smooth the power, I however want more wild power because I love the hit of a mx bike, of course im not expecting the exact same thing by no means but would like more responsive and more power in general.

Ive heard of people using CGK, DGK, CEL Needles for smoothing the power but what do you recommend for more hit and response?

My bike is a 91 E series 200

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 11:21 am Mar 26 2007

For a stock 91 carby your going to want a CGK in the #1 or #2 clip position. 150/152 main and a 40/42 pilot to match.

2001kdx · Post by **2001kdx** » 01:42 pm Mar 26 2007

I slid the CEL into my stock carb and it worked out great. I still have more jetting to do, but this bike's low end is really improved from all of the carb work. I reccomend it to you. I do not notice more hit, but my main and pilot are both a bit flat. The stock needle has nothing on the cel/del!

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 01:55 pm Mar 26 2007

A 89 to 94 stock carby has a #6 slide and 2mm lower jet nozzle vs the #5 slide and higher jet nozzle of the 95+ carbs. A CGK is what you want.

80elkster · Post by **80elkster** » 02:18 pm Mar 26 2007

I aggree with m0rie, you may also try a CGL-3 or -4 clip positions with his suggested jetting. The performance on my 93 was similar to what your looking for. I had a more pronounced hit with a BGL-2, 42P with a 152 main which I think was a result of a rich/lean recovery but if that's what your looking for give it a try. Needles are reasonably cheep from SUDCO. Also try down loading JD Jetting spread sheet if you wan't a better understanding of the fuel curves based on different jets and needles and how they affect your bike's power delivery.

motofox2006 · Post by **motofox2006** » 02:24 pm Mar 26 2007

So now im a bit lost morie says cgk 2001kdx says cel, which one?

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 02:37 pm Mar 26 2007

m0rie wrote:A 89 to 94 stock carby has a #6 slide and 2mm lower jet nozzle vs the #5 slide and higher jet nozzle of the 95+ carbs. A CGK is what you want.

Motofox - This little quoted bit was intended to show that there are differences between the carbs for the E and H series. Those differences require different needle choices for the E series carbs than the H series carbs. The E series carbs generally take a CGK (or CGL, BGL etc.) The H series carbs generally take a CEL or DEL. You have a E series carb. So your going to want a CGK. 2001kdx has a H series carb leading to his choice of a CEL.

Clear as mud?

**edit**

None of this of course applies to the RB carbs. They take the same needles regardless of being used on a E or H series bike.

2001kdx · Post by **2001kdx** » 02:45 pm Mar 26 2007

yes motofox, listen to morie, he is the "E" series guru. Us H series guys may forget you have a slightly different carb.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 02:45 pm Mar 26 2007

m0rie: Clear as Dasani to me...but then....I read what you wrote.

If that's what you want, a hard 'hit' is fine. It's symptomatic of a bike that is not jetted well. It's the recovery from a non-functioning carb circuit to one that works well that will give you a big 'hit'.

motofox2006 · Post by **motofox2006** » 03:12 pm Mar 26 2007

Ok just one more question, i just added a cgk into jd jetting spreadsheet and fiddled with the jetting. I cant manage to get rid of the idle is normal, then it goes suddenly rich and then goes leaner again is this fine, I would of thought going rich suddenly would make things flat at that throttle range but I dont know.

80elkster · Post by **80elkster** » 08:23 pm Mar 26 2007

Actually, going rich right off idle as compared to the stock needle is a good thing. What this does is saturate or keep the fuel levels in the crankcase high so that when you snap the throttle open you get instant response. This gives you much better torque right off idle. There is however a point at which it will become too rich and you will get excessive 4-stroking, spooge, poor response ect. You can lower the pilot jet size to help this but I would'nt go much lower than a 38. By the way what altitude do you ride at?

motofox2006 · Post by **motofox2006** » 10:59 pm Mar 26 2007

thanks for the reply my altitude is 0-200 ft at the most and im already on a 45 pilot is it wise to go leaner than that.

motofox2006 · Post by **motofox2006** » 11:30 pm Mar 26 2007

Sorry to question your reccomendation morie but if I go with a 152 main and 42 pilot with cgk #2 clip on jd jetting spreadsheet it makes jetting go %20 richer off idle which ive been told is fine but then it goes around %10 leaner at 1/4 throttle and the only way to stop this is to go a #4 clip on the needle, is this what should happen is this what causes th better throttle response.

Post by **Mr. Wibbens** » 11:49 pm Mar 26 2007

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah!

Alot of techno mumbo jumbo for something that seems to me is only gonna cause a lot of excessive wheel spin

motofox2006 · Post by **motofox2006** » 01:25 am Mar 27 2007

Mr Wibbens may I state wheelspin is good when you accelerate your face look like this

and the person behind you look like this

But can some one answer this...
Sorry to question your reccomendation morie but if I go with a 152 main and 42 pilot with cgk #2 clip on jd jetting spreadsheet it makes jetting go %20 richer off idle which ive been told is fine but then it goes around %10 leaner at 1/4 throttle and the only way to stop this is to go a #4 clip on the needle, is this what should happen is this what causes th better throttle response.

Also im on an island at the bottom of the globe so I cant get access to sudco so if i ordered a cgk from my kawasaki dealer is that what id ask for or is there another part number?

IdahoCharley · Post by **IdahoCharley** » 11:02 am Mar 27 2007

motofox2006 wrote: But can some one answer this...
Sorry to question your reccomendation morie but if I go with a 152 main and 42 pilot with cgk #2 clip on jd jetting spreadsheet it makes jetting go %20 richer off idle which ive been told is fine but then it goes around %10 leaner at 1/4 throttle and the only way to stop this is to go a #4 clip on the needle, is this what should happen is this what causes th better throttle response.

Remember when using the JD spreadsheet the graph is relative to the first combination of jetting you insert. (so the 20% richer or 10% leaner than ???? is just relative to the first combination of jetting you plugged in)

If you want to initially set-up jetting and your sort of "lost" or some what limited in your jetting experience - I suggest plugging in a base line jetting (JD chart) for your bike based upon recommendations from people with similar mods and bike that report great jetting and those that have an established creditability in giving good information.

Then plug in jetting (in the JD chart) that mimics that jetting for your elevation and temperature. Install that jetting and test it out in your bike. Don't be afraid to change the PJ or MJ or clip position based upon your bikes response.

Once your bike is running good - based upon your observations as to bikes performance (plug chops/response at various throttle openings/torque under load/ etc) install YOUR PROVEN JETTING into the JD chart as your base line jetting.

If further fine tuning is needed/wanted then look at the chart and determine what needles/clip positions/main jet/pilot jet changes MAY get you to the new better base line condition. (You think your rich or lean at 1/4 throttle or 3/4 to full throttle then start plugging in different values into the spreadsheet to identify likely changes that will work for you)

The value of the chart is NOT to exactly identify the jetting you need - but to help you fine tune your particular bike. It allows you to "see" potential changes in jetting ranges without having to install, test, and document each change. Very valuable when you are considering ordering needles or changing throttle valve cutaway changes - so that you are not ordering needles or making changes that will have little chance of working in you application.

If you test enough needles and jetting combinations you will see that seat of the pants testing may not exactly reflect what you were expecting based upon the JD jetting chart!!

But what the JD jetting chart does is allow you to fine turn a given circuit with minimal testing: It allows you to preset-up your bike for changes in elevation and temperature such as when going to the mountains or plains especially once you have identified the perfect combination for your ride and riding style. (It allows you limit the amount of needles, MJs and PJs that you need to transport to new riding areas. )

Be Aware - you still should "test" the jetting out in the new location prior to committing yourself and bike to an extended ride at the new location.

motofox2006 · Post by **motofox2006** » 02:50 pm Mar 27 2007

Ive just found out that sudco does overseas orders and im gonna order a few jets, and a couple of needles, im going to order a cgk and what other one is a good one to get?

Also what is the needle which makes them smooth, need to know for reference?

80elkster · Post by **80elkster** » 04:02 pm Mar 27 2007

Motofox;
First off you need to take a look at the needle that you currently have in your bike now and determine if it is stock. Also determine what pilot and main jets are currently in your bike. If the numbers on your needle look something like R1172N then you have a stock needle that is roughly equivalent to a BGN kehin needle. ( If you want to know more about needles and how to interpret the code try this link "http://justkdx.dirtrider.net" and navigate to KDX Tech Tips, then Understanding Jet Needles and read through the info at least twice). In the JD jetting tool, enter your current jets and needle in the #1 seup as your baseline then compare all your potential setups against that. Going leaner at 1/4 throttle helps the engine combust the initial rich fuel condition just off idle. When you see a line on the graph showing 10 to 15% below your base line at a quarter throttle that shoots back up above the zero line smoothing out around 5-8% above the baseline up to full throttle that is when, at least on my bike, I experienced an "MX" style hit. As Carver mentioned above, I also believe this is a rich/lean/rich condition or a too lean recovery as a result of improper jetting. It was fun for open country but for my riding conditions, tight wet single track through trees it sucked. As for a needle that delivers smooth power (good for slick snotty conditions) Try a DGK.
My last word of advice is to try changing one thing at a time then write down your results. If you are persistent you will find the power delivery that you want.
Good luck and have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2001kdx · Post by **2001kdx** » 07:12 pm Mar 27 2007

The "C" taper needlde for sure is better, so far I have found:

Way more low end reponse
Easier to jet, no bogs anywhere. It is an awesome mod. I still have yet to feel a strong hit, but there is definite wheelspin at the snap of the throttle.

Post by **Mr. Wibbens** » 07:50 pm Mar 27 2007

motofox2006 wrote:Mr Wibbens may I state wheelspin is good when you accelerate your face look like this and the person behind you look like this

While you are spinning that guy behind you is now in front of you 'cuz he just blew your doors off

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KDX jet needle hit increase

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