KDXRIDER.NET

Well, that isn't too bad for peace-of-mind then. Looks like you are doing the homework for the most competant place to get the plating done. Good for you. I would try and be sure not to use a place that does an exchange. You know how your barrel has been treated and can be confident that there isn't any issue with the bore's trueness or that the ports have been dinked with. BTW, some places don't require the removal of the KIPS components. They would handle the removal and installation I think. At least I recall hearing that somewheres.

I agree with Charlie on this one. I looks to me like you have spots with potential for flaking. I ran a cylinder on my 86 that looked much like yours and ended up taking it apart 3 months after the rebuild and doing it again. Its a toss of the dice, might be fine for years, or hours. If it was mine and I was planning on keeping the bike for a while I would pony up with the $180 and do it right.

Also, U.S. Chrome should be investigated by the Better Business Bureau. I have never been violated in so many ways as I was when I dealt with them on my Bro's rebuild. They had an I don't give a F*&K attitude with me during the whole ordeal. Save yourself some pain, don't use them.

I had a replate done a couple of years ago.
The pre-plating pickling process goobered up the RH subport drum shaft bore, making the KIPS operation a bit sticky.

I thought it would loosen up over time, it did not

I took it all apart and fixed it a year + later.

The same may or may not happen to YOU.

Karl

Maybe I've just been extremely lucky but having used a number of platers with no real issues. Maybe they took a few extra days longer than expected - but I've had nothing but excellent results. i.e. Various 2-cycle bike and snowmachine cylinders over the last 20 years.

I'll mention a few things - don't know if it will be helpful or not - just thoughts I think worthy of sharing:

1. Seems like most of the problem platers I've heard about have been from the California. I don't know if U.S. Chrome where CC or Dave04KDX dealt was in CA or IL. But the IL U.S. Chrome gave me very good service and high quality cylinders replating with zero issues at least four times. I have known of dozens of snowmachine cylinders being replated in the WI and MN areas without any issues.

2. There are a number of platers that guarantee their plating for one year and at least one guarantees it as a limited lifetime warrantee: (With normal disclaimers for broken parts flying around within the cylinder or lean seizures which are beyond their control.) I'll let you guys perform your own seach since I'm not attempting to identify any one plater as the "one" to use. Merely just indicating there are various options and limited warrantees.

3. If the plater just strips the existing coating and replates back to std dimensions and diamond hones everything should be good: provided good procedures are in place for neutralizing and cleaning the newly stripped "bare" cylinder. However if there is residue or a non-quality clean-up from the stripping operations the new plating may be compromised. (I think this may be what happened to CC cylinder based upon a conversation I had with a SLP tech last year concerning snowmachine cylinder replating concerns)

Many of the platers will perform a light honing or a skim boring of the stripped cylinder prior to applying a new coating. The purpose of this is two fold - one is to straighten out any slight wear issues the second purpose is to expose fresh aluminum for a better bond with the new plating.

Down sides - costs a few bucks more ($20-30) over the just strip it and plate it back to std please for the least amount of money possible. Some riders have expressed some concerns with having a plating that is twice as thick as standard and the potential for flaking. I do not have adequate experience or knowledge to debate whether or not thicker plating has a higher chance of flaking or not - but if Eric Gorr doesn't have a problem with it I certainly don't. (Note - EG does clean-up the port transfer areas after they have been plated and before sending back to you - really saying that he double checks U.S. Chromes work prior to send the cylinder back to you)

4. When a cylinder is sent in to a shop to be replated there are always going to be certain risks associated with human screw-ups or employee short-cuts. From an accidently dropped cylinder to what ever else you can imagine. If it is my cylinder - I thoughly look over the cylinder when I receive it and determine for myself that every thing is as it should be visually. I haven't had a problem yet.....

Wow. This is turning out to be quite the informative thread (minus some nonsense posts).

Here is the latest e-mail from Jeff Fredette. BTW, he was actually here in Arizona testing the Kaw KLX450R with a bunch of Team-Greenies like Ricky D, Destry, etc. I'll post the links to the write-ups in another thread.

Now, back to Jeffy:

Cylinder does look ok except the plating is worn off in the whitish area. it will grow with time. if you are going to keep it for awhile it should be replated. it would run $180.
let me know what you would like to do.
jeff

Worn off in the whitish areas?

The whites I'm looking at look to be on the INside of the port, no?

I guess I need arrows and a definition for each one........

I didn't read through all of this...but do be sure to send your intended replacement (new of course?) piston WITH the cyinder. Any plater that will do the job without the piston is a plater to stay well away from.

USC (IL) screwed my cylinder up to such an extent, freak accident or no, I would never consider giving them a second chance to screw me again.

"Inside the port, no?"

The white portion is near the top of the cylinder at the 2 O' Clock position.

This is the first time anyone has ever mentioned sending the pistion along with the cylinder. Either the bore is to spec or not, correct?

I'll ask MonkeyButt.

Rick

You can ask if you like....still the same. If the plater will not match your cylinder to THE piston, they are crappo platers.

Re: To spec or not

If it's a Pro-X piston (not true in the case of your 220 I hope), production tolerances vary. Thus the A, B, C, D, E, F pistons.

I don't imagine every Wiseco piston is 'exactly' the same.



Langcourt requires a piston. Well, suggests strongly, maybe. So they can MATCH the cylinder to the piston.

**edit**

Re: '"I can't imagine why anyone who works for a living would bother to do it himself when hiring a mechanic to do it is pretty cheap..'

Personally, I have NEVER found a mechanic that was worth a pile of cow dung. Stripped fasteners, missing parts, not doing what they SAID they would...and that's just in the past weeks.

I've had expert 'mechanics' ruin a $4000 engine job because 'they knew better' and did the exact opposite of what I TOLD them to do. I've had mechanics replace a fuseable link with a piece of wire...an under-dash-call-the-fire-department-replace-the-whole-damn-wiring-harness episode in the near future.

I've had NHRA record holder 'mechanics' so-called blueprint an engine to the extent the piston lifted the head 1/4" off the deck!

Wanna try to fire THAT one up?

Sorry. I have decades of experience that says, 'Mechanics my ass!!'

Oh...and I've had a cylinder plated my 'professionals' that was so screwed up I NEVER got it to run.

If you trust a 'mechanic' to do ANYthing to your bike and do it correctly, well....I'm sorry for you.

I suppose this could all be ranked with 'my personal bias' on the matter...but it's only happened a couple of dozen times.

To be sure, it's not just 'mechanics'. It's contractors, ANY service people doing any job. Mostly people are stupid and don't give a rip whether the job is done correctly or not.

When you FIND someone that does the job correctly, WELL even...you have stuck gold. Ron Black 'fer instance.

You seem to be very bitter.

Rick

AZRickD wrote: As to why I didn't do it myself (your question isn't particularly helpful to my situation and injects your personal bias into my situation).

For example, I could say, "I can't imagine why anyone who works for a living would bother to do it himself when hiring a mechanic to do it is pretty cheap and allows me to spend more time with my family. I'm going to grad school, working full time, coaching youth sports, and preparing my house. I don't have the time."
Rick

You've spent more time on this thread then it woulda taken you to do the topend yourself!

AZRickD wrote:"Inside the port, no?"

The white portion is near the top of the cylinder at the 2 O' Clock position.

This is the first time anyone has ever mentioned sending the pistion along with the cylinder. Either the bore is to spec or not, correct?

I'll ask MonkeyButt.

Rick

No need to ask. Never have and never will send a cylinder out for plating without the piston.

Mr. Wibbens wrote:

You've spent more time on this thread then it woulda taken you to do the topend yourself!

Not including shipping and handling to Alabama.

You are not the first to complain about my anal-retentiveness when it comes to seeking information. But, one way or another, I'll get the information, and this thread will serve as a reference to future KDXers. A good thing, no?

Rick

Re: Bitter

I related some facts. I'm not happy with what those facts say about the way lots of people do things. I would be ashamed to show my face if I pulled a small percentage of such boondoggles, let alone endanger people's lives in the process.

Has nothing to do with being bitter, harsh, corrosive, acrimonious or acerbic. They're just the facts. True, lots of people don't like hearing facts. It interferes with their 'feelings' or rose-colored glasses view of reality.

It's good to learn from facts, else life is more difficult than it needs be. As someone here says, 'Life is tough. It's tougher when you're stupid.'

Your post wasn't particularly helpful, as it was presented more as a rant. I get grief for asking questions, then I get, "...It's tougher when you're stupid."

And on and on.

It's been shipped to Alabama. The web site says 7 days.

Rick

There was a point. Sorry it was missed.

'It's tougher when you're stupid' had nothing to do with you. It wasn't written as a personal indictment of 'Rick, Azirona'.

Your cylinder will likely be just fine.

Good luck....and enjoy your 'new' machine!

You can ask for advice, but when it's given, don't be disappointed that it's not what you want to hear. And certainly don't blame the person giving the advice. I highly recommend you re-read every word CC took the time to post, as he usually won't waste time re-writing information that can be gleaned from previous threads. And it's all out there somewhere; everything he's said in this post, so consider that when reviewing his "rant" as well.

As far as anal-retentive, you'll have to stand in line. That's why most of us joined this site. We are fanatic enough to replace whole systems on our KDX's from other bikes, even other brands of bikes. Being AR to the details is what matters most. It's a good thing and you won't be faulted for that. You aren't really AR if you are willing to let anyone else even near your bike with a tool though. Now, CC..... HE"S AR!!!!! HaW!!! (Snort!) excuse me!!

The re-chromed cylinder came back from 'Bama.

The folks around the shops said, it was a "good lookin' job."



The KDX should be back together and ready for me to ignore rational break-in procedures by the end of the week.

New top-end. New chain/sprockets. New tires front and rear. Rebuilt (and professionally mounted, this time) '98 KX forks.

I might not recognize this bike when I get it back.

Rick

I will agree with CC on his rant. you are lucky if 1 out of 10 service providers cant find there ars from a hole in the ground. SO when you find one and have a heart warming experiance with goods or service, pay the bill with a smile and spread the word.

Don't forget to put the pins in!!!

If there are any left-over parts I'm sure Jeff and Robb at MunchyButt will sell them on eBay.

Rick