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Indawoods
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Post by Indawoods »

Hey guys... I've been a wrenchin' foo.. today and tore my top end off. Finally you guys can see what happened to my cylinder due to an improperly installed circlip. The pics are in my Gallery under the album "Circlip and the Damage Done" (sorry Neil...)

Anyway... When I ordered my Pro-X piston from the stealership, they gave me a standard piston... they said "It's a standard bore so it takes a standard piston" Well... now I'm crying foul! First off... it's a "B" cylinder and should have a "B" piston.... right? Secondly, it's a somewhat broke in "B" cylinder.... shouldn't they have mic'd the cylinder while they had it for cleaning? Isn't this the way you are SUPPOSED to do things? Or am I just being anal over this and should just run what they gave me?
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Post by KDXSean »

You need to have a chat with them
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Post by cicone »

Haaa! Inda----Finally someone else who uses the cooler/2x4 bike stand. I feel at home now. Oh, uh, your dealer needs a talkin' to. :mrgreen:
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Post by KDXGarage »

Who are "they"? Did you specifically ask for a certain letter piston, or did you just say you wanted a piston?

What all did you have done to it?

Any chance to take it to a machine shop and have them check the cylinder inside dimensions and piston diameter? I think the required piston clearance spec is in the manual, right?

Any chance to buy a cylinder gauge (measuring device) and micrometer to measure them yourself? Those are on my long list of tools to get (first Harbor Freight, then Stareet / Mitutuyo after I win the lottery). :lol:
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Post by Indawoods »

Well Jason, I took the cylinder in to buy a piston and to have my jug checked and cleaned. Seems to me, a "B" cylinder should have a "B" piston. Especially since it has been prevously used. When I got everything back, I ended up with a clean jug and a standard piston. I am taking it in tonight after work to talk to them so they can explain it to me. :lol:

I have a micrometer somewhere.... been looking for it for months now.
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Post by KDXGarage »

We need a job there. We would have known what to do. :lol:
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Post by Indawoods »

I got Caterpillar on it now! Taking it to the "Gauge Lab" as soon as it warms up... been in the truck until I asked the guys if they could mic it for me! What a great place I work at! :lol:
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Post by fuzzy »

You have a "B" cyl? Just curious, but where did you get this from? You just had the cyl replated, and not bored right?

When finish-honing the plating they should have set it back to original factory spec ("A" sized, or std piston). The A,B,C,D had me confused at one point also--this is unique to pistons manufactured for plated cyl's. They are BARELY seperated in size to compensate for the very small wear of the plating in between rebuilds--not to be confused with .10 over, etc. The "Factory" piston/cyl maintenance procedure is buy bike("A" piston), 1st top-end use "B" piston, 2nd use "C", then "D", then buy new cylinder and start w/ "A" again. Obviously no one would buy a new cyl, but either bore/re-plate or just replate. What's funny is the guy(head of the shop, in a wheelchair) at World of Powersports(Inda's dealer) is the one who told me this. He stated that the A,B,C,D size differences are simply to make up for very slight differences in piston clearance. He also stated that you can run a "D" in a brand new cyl, and that most racers will go w/ a "D" on their first top-end job to get a slight increase in HP. He said to be sure to warm up the engine well when using this config to avoid cold seizure as the clearance will be a little on the tight side, which we always do anyway. He also said that he'd run "D", "D", "D" and replate, and the clearance would still be in spec. My WR is std bore w/ a "D" piston right now, and the "D" replaced an "A" with no problems. To wrap up what you should have is an "A" (std) piston in a bore that's been set back to off the floor spec...
'91 KDX 200 Project $300 KDX
'95 KDX 200 Project $600 KDX
'94 WR 250 Always a project
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Post by Indawoods »

No replate... plate was perfect. eBay special! "B" stamped on the cylinder and also on the original. Anyway...Cat will straighten it out today..... :grin:
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Post by KDXGarage »

I have read that the problem is that the cylinders are not all the same, so then a "whatever size is best" sized piston is inserted into that cylinder. Temperature, boring tool wear, etc. keeps them from spitting out perfect measurement cylinders, one after another.
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Post by KDXGarage »

I want to say that my stock 1987 KDX200 cylinder and piston were a B.
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Post by fuzzy »

Oh, yeah forgot you found that other cyl. I think that "B" on your cyl means something else, and isn't related to the bore size at all. Either way, based on what I said in my other post is that you could really run an A, B, C, or D in there and be fine. WOP gave you an A I take it. Your guys at Cat will be able to tell you your piston clearance, and this is what you're after. If it's a little out of spec, then you should step up to a B, C or D. The exact size of the B, C, and D will be in their book, and you can use this against your bore measurement(from Cat) to get the correct clearance. I'm sure they gave you a piston that will check out OK clearance wise...The "B" on the cyl is just an unrelated, confusing number(Me thinks :shock: )
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Post by Indawoods »

Well I would agree but the "B" is stamped... not cast into the cylinder. It means something! And this is the best explaination I can figure!
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Post by KDXGarage »

If all else fails, check out info from Pro-X:

Size: Pistonkit: Pistonrings:
65,94 mm. 01.4285.A 02.4285
65,95 mm. 01.4285.B 02.4285
65,96 mm. 01.4285.C 02.4285
65,97 mm. 01.4285.D 02.4285
65,98 mm. 01.4285.E 02.4285
65,99 mm. 01.4285.F 02.4285
66,25 mm. 01.4285.025 02.4285.025
66,50 mm. 01.4285.050 02.4285.050

It is jumbled in the formatting, but you can see the difference in sizes and the lettering that goes with each. There's more info on the http://www.pro-x.com website.
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Post by Indawoods »

Already got it printed out... I'M ON IT! :lol:
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Post by fuzzy »

Cool....Whenever the thing was rebuilt, they must have smacked it w/ a B stamp. If that's the case then you should've 'techincally' been given a "C" piston. Let us know what the mic says....

I think this A-D crap is just an easy way of dealing w/ piston clearance w/o having to measure it. The difference between A-D is something like .00010(out of my butt, but it's VERY small), and a simple telescope guage in the cyl/mic can't measure this accurately. Last I read several hundred dollars worth of tools are needed to do it right(jug in jig, zeroed center, dial indicator, etc). :roll:
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Post by Indawoods »

Yup... Cat has all that.... These guys are GOOOD!!!!!!!! I will get a good reading. You wouldn't believe the machines these guys use.
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Post by KDXGarage »

How in the heck do those little inside cylinder gauges work, anyway?! I have got a 0" - 1" micrometer, so I know I can measure a piston, but I don't own any of those telescoping gauges. Does anyone know how they work?

Thanks.
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Post by Indawoods »

My cylinder is being measured by a computer controlled probe and the machine is the size of a large SUV. Wild to say the least.....

If you can measure a piston... you can measure a cylinder to the depth of the fingers... but thats usually a false reading due to piston lip.
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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Post by Indawoods »

cicone wrote:Haaa! Inda----Finally someone else who uses the cooler/2x4 bike stand. I feel at home now. :mrgreen:
That's a special cooler... it's actually a tent cooler. (home made of course) It has a fan that blows on the ice and a PVC tube that vents the cool air.

I alway thought why do I need a bike stand... I got a kickstand. Until I come to these situations then I use what I got! :lol: Still need a stand! :shock:
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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