Trials Tire

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jowens66
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Trials Tire

Post by jowens66 »

Hey folks,

I just got done reading alot of articles on trials tires. Seems like quite a few people are running them on the rear end of their bikes and have been getting outstanding traction. Anyone on this board run a trials tire in the rear? I just ordered a Michelin X-11 and a bridgestone ultra-heavy duty tube. I'll post up the results when i get it in and mounted.
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Post by strider80 »

That would be great if you could give us a review. I keep almost pulling the trigger on the Dunlop D803.

Are you going to run two rim locks?
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Post by KDXer »

Its gonna be my next tyre, let us know how you like it. :partyman:
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Post by jowens66 »

Yeah i ordered another rim lock. Ill be sure to give yall a review
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Post by Tusk »

>|<>QBB<
strider80 wrote:That would be great if you could give us a review.
+1
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Post by IdahoCharley »

We ran trials tires on a KTM 380 and KDX 200 last year.

The boy's 200 did not get used very much :sad: but when I rode it with a Dunlop 803 at about 8 psi the hook-up was fantastic on embedded rock, crossing roots, dry dirt, frozen ground with very little snow cover. The cons IMO were braking on loose silt/rocks and riding steeper off-camber muddy rut type trails. Also I was not impressed with hook-up on loose shale rock climbs which is one of the areas that MOST people seem to like. Trials tire want to slip into (edit - muddy off-camber) rut and does not climb out like a good knobby would. Wallowing in (edit - fast dry) corners was apparent even when running 12 psi on this tire. This tire's outer diameter is approximately 1 inch larger than a Mitas Trial tire (makes a noticable change in your apparent gearing)

I ran the 380 much more with a Mitas tire and was favorally impressed -in the same areas like the write-up above. The cons were the same except the wallowing sensation would diminish at a lower pressure ~ 10psi. I ran this tire down as low as 6 psi and slipped it on the rim with two tire locks in place. Also put a cut in the side wall ~3/4 inch on the first or second ride with the tire.

FWIW - We are going to keep the trials tire on the 200 this year since the tire did not see much use and basically looks new. On the 380 I'm going back to a knobby which I feel is more predictable for me, due to my riding style. Also a knobby doesn't normally have me worried about totally tearing out the side wall of the rear tire in rocks. I don't know how many times I went through sections much slower/cautiously than I would have if I did not half-way expect the rear tire to go flat. :shock: (I ride by myself a fair amount of time)

I think the trials tires in the right conditions are great - however, there is trade offs that you will experience. For some the trade offs enhance their riding experience and for some the trade-off detract from the riding experience. I would definitely use a trials tire in Moab and similar areas and would strongly recommend it for snotty root infested area where speed is NOT needed and traction is. :roll:
Last edited by IdahoCharley on 11:10 am Mar 01 2007, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trials Tire

Post by Flying W »

>|<>QBB<
jowens66 wrote:
Anyone on this board run a trials tire in the rear? I just ordered a Michelin X-11 and a bridgestone ultra-heavy duty tube. I'll post up the results when i get it in and mounted.
I put one on my WR at the beginning of the winter. We have clay soil, deeply rutted at times, full of roots and rocks. Lots of elevation change and off-camber misery ( :supz: ). With the exception of soupy puddles, the tire totally rocks compared to a knobby. I have read IdahoCharley's comments and would tell you his experience is the exception to the rule. Anything imbedded gives significantly more traction than a knobby. As far as off-camber stuff...even in the clay...if the front tire can track across it, the rear tire will too. I am a grip and rip kind of rider, even with the trials tire on my bike. I find that brake-sliding is almost as predictable as with a knobby. I have needed to make one adjustment though after getting shot off the trail a number of times: "dynamic friction" (aka traction) is so good while climbing that the front tire easily lifts off the dirt without you noticing, which you realize is happening when you go straight when the trail is turning. I've had several occasions where I was leaning into the turn (thinking my front end would track around a berm), only to fly off the trail, into the bushes, with laughter coming from whoever was riding behind me. I can't complain about too much traction at those times. I just need to stay forward on the bike and let the tire do what it's supposed to do...and that's grip. :cool:


We just picked up a KDX220 Friday night. The local shop gave us a Michelin X-11 tubeless 'take off' (whatever...you could still see the factory sipes cut into each knob surface) because they like us. It went straight on to the KDX. I know it will be the answer to winter conditions here in the PNW, just as it is on my WR.

Check out these helmet vids of what I'm talking about. This was a dry day in early February.

http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?X ... &CID=70893
http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?X ... &CID=71205
http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?X ... &CID=71220
http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?X ... &CID=71226
http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?X ... &CID=71318
Last edited by Flying W on 09:33 pm Feb 27 2007, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by layoutd »

i guess you're pretty good at log crossings :shock:
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Post by IdahoCharley »

When I viewed Flying W's videos what would bother me would be the small 3 inch and larger diameter poles laying semi-parallel to the trail when traveling at those speeds. (well that and the stumps and trees the downed poles would likely send me into - LOL)

Did not see much elevation change (compared to what we have) or serious off-cambers, in the videos, but surely lots of muddy looking ruts and loose small poles. I would not have been comfortable traveling at the speeds shown in most area in the videos : With or without the advantages associated with the trials tire - Good Job - Flying W!!
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Post by scheckaet »

what would bother me would be the small 3 inch and larger diameter poles laying semi-parallel to the trail when traveling at those speeds
:shock: I second that :?
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Post by Flying W »

>|<>QBB<
IdahoCharley wrote: ...what would bother me would be the small 3 inch and larger diameter poles laying semi-parallel to the trail when traveling at those speeds. (well that and the stumps and trees the downed poles would likely send me into - LOL)
Oh, let me tell you, I have first hand experience with the stumps and trees off to the sides. You might wonder why my helmet (in another thread) looks so new! Big digger one night going the opposite way on part of that first trail .:oops:
IdahoCharley wrote:Did not see much elevation change (compared to what we have)
Yeah, lame thing about helmet cameras is that they seem to film parallel to the ground (duh, I know). So there are only subtle clues to when you are climbing and descending...unless the helmet is turned to the side on a climb or descent. There was probably only about an 800 foot elevation change in any of the climbs or descents.

Still, I agree with IC - and I worked in the Huckleberry Wilderness Area near the Middle Fork of the Salmon River, as well as near Stanley, Id. - the elevation change you have in the Rocky's is awesome. I get a little taste of it when I get to sneak up to the Gifford Pinchot NF in Washington in the summer. You can bet I will tape the first ride I have this year and post it here you everyone.
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Post by jowens66 »

Heres my short review of the trials tire!:

I put it on the bike today, running about 10 pounds of pressure in it. The first thing i noticed when i put it on is how tall this tire is, it is as tall as my front tire and really made the bike taller, which is good for me. It has rained here recently and the field behind my house holds water and is pretty nasty and gooey. I took off and i couldn't keep my front tire on the ground. This thing blows my Dunlop 752 and 756 out of the water and is noticibly better than my Michelin S-12. I also noticed that it absorbed bumps and stuff much better, it was like my suspension was better.

In puddles of water and mud this thing grabbed. With my Dunlop's i could sit in that exact spot and spin and stay sitting still. With the trials tire, i wasn't spinning much, if any, and my front tire was in the air. It was amazing. I didn't think traction like that was obtainable. After fooling around in the muddy field and riding wheelies i decided to go on a couple of trails through the woods that have big logs across them. Most of the time i get stuck on these huge logs when going slow, i usually get the front tire over the log and then the back tire just spins on the log. Not the case with the trials tire. I got my front tire across the logs, rolled up and stopped with the log under my foot pegs, then using the same method that would never work with knobbies, the tire grabbed the log and went right on across. I almost wrecked at that point because i never expected the tire to bite a almost rotten log with green moss on it. The tire exceeded my expectations by far. I am very impressed.

I will give more review on it after friday. I am taking my bike to my usual riding place that has huge steep hills, washouts, loose rocky climbs, slick hills. You name it, its got it. I'm gonna get to test the tire on alot of terrains. Ill let yall know how it does.
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Post by Flying W »

>|<>QBB<
jowens66 wrote:Heres my short review of the trials tire!:

I put it on the bike today, running about 10 pounds of pressure in it. The first thing i noticed when i put it on is how tall this tire is, it is as tall as my front tire and really made the bike taller, which is good for me.

I will give more review on it after friday. I am taking my bike to my usual riding place that has huge steep hills, washouts, loose rocky climbs, slick hills. You name it, its got it. I'm gonna get to test the tire on alot of terrains. Ill let yall know how it does.
I recommend, as hard as it will be to believe it, that you lower your pressure to 8lbs on your Friday trail ride. Also, due to the increased height of the tire, you might consider adjusting your sag.
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Post by KDXer »

Awesome, thanks for the preliminary report. Be very interested to hear how it handles brake slides and if braking performance has been affected...
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Post by IdahoCharley »

Crossing logs with a trials tire is the most awesome way to make it look like your Mike Laffery or Shane Watts IMO. Absolutely shines as it does over big exposed roots whether or not there are muddy - nothing can even come close to touching it in those conditions IMHO. :supz:

IMO - Having a shorter swing arm on the KDX verse KTM does give a noticable boost in traction due to rider's weight placement - ease of getting noticable transferable weight over the rear driving wheel equals traction and a very light front end. The XR 400s are also very good in this regard when compared to most of the MX bikes converted to trail riding.

IMHO this out-weighs any stability advantages associated with installing a longer swing arm on the KDX frame. Forgot who was looking into doing this - but I believe it was someone on this board.
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Post by cfspawn »

can anyone give me a clue on what they are like with higher speeds or fast trails?? traction sounds great but some speed would be nice :blink:
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Post by IdahoCharley »

That is one of the areas I did not like it. You give up some braking overal IMO, if you brake slide alot you just learn some different technics ( very doable), you get use to the high speed wallowing in the corners after a little bit (varies according to tire pressure - feels real strange at first like a tire going flat) Not much warning before they give up the grip when the bike is leaned over - so you modify your riding technics a little.

Hitting things at higher speed will put rubber marks way up the side of your rim (worried me/ dependent upon tire pressure) hitting things at speed you feel the thump of the rim coming into contact with the rock or junk. 6-10 psi

If you increase the pressure you minimize some most of this but then you start giving up the big benefits to running the trials tire. I'm not trying to indicate trials tires are better or worest than knobbies. They are absolutely awesome in many conditions, but if you run a serious different number of conditions on a single ride there are compromizes (I guess I'm too lazy to adjust tire pressure on a ride unless absolutely necessary).

Fire or county roads at 50-60 mph are not handled very well at 6 -8 psi in the trials tire and jumping water bars will thump your rim big time : if you bump the pressure to 12 psi then most of the benefit to going over muddy roots and climbing loose dirt is lost.

The tires seem to wear well and don't seem to loose much traction even when getting worn out. My friend lost a major portion on his center knobs on his trial tire for no apparent reason - rides an XR 400 and was running a Mitas trials tire. My Mitas stood up just fine in the same terrian and I have a tenency to gas it alot than he does.

I can install a S-12 or MB5 and ride the same terrian without giving the tire a thought. If I'm riding with a trials tire I have to think a little more on my technic, or lack thereof. Maybe if I put another 600 miles or so on the trials tire I would gain more confidence.
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Post by Flying W »

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cfspawn wrote:can anyone give me a clue on what they are like with higher speeds or fast trails?? traction sounds great but some speed would be nice :blink:
I have used, and plan to use, the trials tire only in the woods...and then, only in the winter. The reason is I want traction when conditions suck. When the conditions are good - when I have hero traction - or if I am going to open terrain (like the desert), there is no specific gain with the trials tire so it comes off and on goes a knobby.

In other words, the woods in the winter do not yield many opportunities to plug along the trail at faster than say, 30mph. If you go faster than that, no matter what tire you have, you are either a factory rider or in the bushes after every turn.

I have had the bike running at faster speeds though, on gravel roads in between trails, and have not noticed unusual handling. But then, if I did, it's a road not a trail, so I could ease off and conserve my testosterone.

Finally, my opinion: If you spend a good chunk of your time on fast trails, the conditions may not warrant the use of a trials tire. Momentum is a great help when traction is compromised, so even a knobby in poor condition can keep you headed in the right direction when the trail allows you greater speed.
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Post by jowens66 »

Took my bike out today, conditions were very nasty, it rained three inches here overnight.

Even though everything was as slick as snot, the trials tire performed flawlessly. I went with 8lb's of pressure as Flying W suggested. Had a load of fun today, mostly road up steep hills with some loose rock and slick mud. I was the first one to try the biggest hill, and made it the first time with ease thanks to the traction the trials tire gave. While at the top i watched my friends get partway up the hill and loose traction, then they would have to turn around and try again. Me and a guy with a Pirelli soft terrain were the only one's who made it, but it took him several rides and i would consider him a better rider than me.

Next we played around in a very small creek that has a bank about three feet high with roots as big as my calf. I took my bike up the bank twice over the roots while the other guys sat on the other bank and watched. No one else even attempted the roots, and i am definately not the best or wittiest rider in the group, but i had alot of faith in the trials tire.

Even in shallow mud, it was impossible to loose traction. The only place where the tire lost traction and spun was in deep mud. The tire cleans out VERY well too, i never looked back to see the tire full of mud, always clean.

Braking with a trials tire is a WHOLE new story. It is something that really takes some getting used to. While coming down one of those gnarly hills i decided to see if the tire grabbed any better braking wise than a knobby. It sure did and i came to a quick stop. I almost fell over because i wasn't expecting to stop like i did. Cornering is fine with a trials tire. Some folks were concerned with it slipping while riding out the side of a steep muddy hill. I can tell them first hand that if the front tire isn't slidding, the back tire is still digging.

Riding at higher speeds wasn't a problem for me at all down a tar and chip road. Maybe some slight side to side movement, but what can be expected from a tire @ 60mph running 8 pounds of pressure.

Conclusion:
I am extremely impressed with the trials tire. It is truly a horse of another color. I am just an average rider, but this tire made me look like a pro today and prevented me from having some wrecks that i probably would have had with a knobbie. It also took me places a knobbie wouldn't have. It got tested on alot of different terrains today, and performed much better than all my friend's knobbies did.

If you are considering a trials tire, get one. You won't regret it. Idaho Charley musta been running too much pressure or just had a dud tire because the Michelin X-11 is so much better than a knobbie ever was for me.

Also, after two rides, there is no sign of the tire wearing. The edges on the knobs aren't rounded, stil sharp. I would have seen wear on a regular knobbie for sure because i have rode this tire on blacktop and on everthing else.

This tire gets a 11 out of 10. :mrgreen: . :prayer: All hail the Michelin X-11 :prayer:
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Post by jowens66 »

Oh yeah, one more thing.
When i got to where we were riding, all my friends were talking about my tire. They were making fun of it and how gay it looked.

At the end of the ride one of the guys walked up and said, "That thing looks gay, but gosh will it bite."

Now all my friends want a "gay" tire for their bikes.
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