Main exhaust valve positioning?

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vinny
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Main exhaust valve positioning?

Post by vinny »

My manual gives pretty good detail about installing the left and right valve but has virtually no info on timing the main valve. I installed my new piston , rings and cylinder tonight but don't know about the main valve. I have installed and lined up the upper valves, even the main valve is in but its not timed as of yet. Am I over looking something? Maybe somewhere else in the manual? Thanks

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Post by TopperHarley »

I beleive it only goes in one position on the shaft. it will only work one way.
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Post by dave04kdx »

It only goes in one way. The shaft has one hole in the middle that a 4mm socket cap screws in to. I remember the valve timing ths way. If both left and right valves are closed the movable flap on the sub port valve in the middle will be down. Make sure that the alignment marks on the gear above the detent ball and spring are lined up correctly.
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Post by vinny »

I'm sorry I failed to mention it's an E series bike.
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Post by vinny »

I may have figured it out! Please correct me if I'm wrong. And have mercy on me I work 3rd so I've been up since yesterday afternoon sometime or another. If you push the rod in (left) all three valves open at the same time. Right? So it's a matter of timing on my part. As I'm sliding the rod in I have to line the pinion up with the rack so it starts to rotate as the rack goes by. I guess the lever coming from the crank case will only allow it to go a certain distance because it can go a little too far by hand. I hope I made some sence to someone other than myself :grin:

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Post by canyncarvr »

The fact that this thread doesn't really make any sense makes me wonder if something is being missed.

The question was in regard to how to time the main valve. The responses were correct..it goes in one way.

To read, 'I may have it figured out..' indicates there was still some question?

You mention having installed your piston and rings...but you 'don't know' about the main valve?

The KIPS had better be in and timed correctly BEFORE you put the piston and rings in. You cannot do a lot of messing with KIPS timing when the cylinder is bolted on...and what you CAN do is MUCH more difficult to GET done.

KIPS goes in FIRST. THEN the piston/rings/cylinder.

If everything is fine...then fine! The way this thread flows it's not at all clear.

...to me anyway. Not that THAT matters.........
vinny wrote:I hope I made some sence to someone other than myself.
I hope so, too! :wink:

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Post by vinny »

Maybe I'm lost but I can't see any reason you have to have the cylinder and piston in to adjust the Kips valves as they don't seem to physically touch the piston at all (well, I can't see why you would want it to). So what diffarance does it make? Besides, I installed the piston and rings first then installed the kips valves. Maybe I wasn't clear about it being a 1993 bike. I followed the the maual to a T. I installed the left and right valves held them up until I got the rod in just like the manual said I lined up the punch marks perfectly then I realize all it states in the manual about the the main exhaust valve is basicly nothing but stick it in. If I stick it in with the flat side up and don't make it interact with the rod then I may as well leave it out because it don't do nothing. Three people say it can only go in one way. I say at least 2 ways possibly three. Maybe I need to mention that the engine is sitting outside the frame on a work table. I can't understand what differance it makes if the cylinder is on or off the bike as the complete Kips valve setup works independantly of everything but the rod that comes from the crank case. :?

Vinny

P.S. Maybe I'm stupid

P.S.S I think I understand what you mean about installing the KIPS first. clearance issues with the frame or something. But my engine is sitting on a work table
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Post by grump99 »

>|<>QBB<
vinny wrote:If you push the rod in (left) all three valves open at the same time. Right? So it's a matter of timing on my part. As I'm sliding the rod in I have to line the pinion up with the rack so it starts to rotate as the rack goes by.
I think you are on the right track. I helped a buddy with a '91 kdx, so I understand what you mean about the pinion and rack part. If you can get all 3 valves to start to open at the same time, you should be good. As I remember it was a royal pain in the butt to get the center valve aligned properly, so a little patience is probably going to be needed. It was a long time ago, so I can't remember all the details. Maybe an E-series owner will chime in.

Good luck!

Tony.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: ' So what diffarance does it make?'

The difference is it is much easier to line the subport drums up and generally work on the KIPS when it's sitting in front of your face on a lighted bench as opposed to having the frame, cables and everything else in the way. You saying your engine is out, some of that doesn't apply. I'd would still always put the KIPS in first. You're welcome to do it any way you wish.

Not mentioning the 'engine out' part didn't help the understanding.

Anyway, after what Grump said all bets are off. I understood the responses to you saying the main valve went in only one way came from (probably) 'H' riders..and that's not what you have. I got that part. While there are considerable differences between the 'E' and 'H' KIPS, some things are the same. One of those being I know there is no 'timing' issue with the main valve and didn't think the 'E' series was different in that regard.

I suppose you could put the 'H' KIPS main valve in more than one way..but you would have to stretch the imagination to come up with it. From the angles, finish, threads and flats of things, there should be plenty of clues to do it right. But...I don't have an 'E'..and don't know anything about them, either.

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Post by m0rie »

I'd take a look at the following pages:

http://www.geocities.com/a57ngel/moto/kips.html
http://www.geocities.com/a57ngel/moto/kips2.html
http://www.geocities.com/a57ngel/moto/kips3.html

The reassembly instructions that Jaguar has on the bottom of page
three are pretty clear on how to get the main valve positioned correctly.
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Post by vinny »

I have read this info and to be honest it is still sketchy at best. He does a good job on all of it but in his reassembly portion (page 3). The first set of parenthesis doesn't explain much about the valve. I understand you have to slide the valve in with the flat side up to clear the end of the rod but at what point do you engage the pinion with the teeth on the rod? The way I have it set up when you push the rod to the left all three of the valves open at the same time. Should they all open together?

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Post by m0rie »

I believe that all three should open together.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Well, th'ar 'ya go!

I knew the 'E' series had an idler for the subport drums..I didn't know the exhaust valve was also a rotary device.

The outcome remains the same: When the KIPS is activated the subport drums both 'open' to increase exhaust port area..same as the exhaust valve does. The 'edges' of the openings will correspond to edges in the cylinder, too.

If anything decreases port area when the KIPS activates, something ain't right.


Re: 'I understand you have to slide the valve in with the flat side up to clear the end of the rod but at what point do you engage the pinion with the teeth on the rod?

Once the main valve is put in place and oriented I don't read that it is twisted, turned or moved in any way except farther IN and then its guide is replaced.

Re: 'when you push the rod to the left all three of the valves open at the same time.'

:hmm:

Watch your rights and lefts. The right side is the brake side, the left side is the gear shift side. If you're looking at it from the front, the right side is STILL the brake side. As I understand what you said..you got left/right backwards..so to speak.

So...it's all good vinny?
Last edited by canyncarvr on 07:54 pm Jan 31 2007, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by vinny »

I believe it's all good. Thanks guys!

Vinny
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